Thanks everyone for chiming in but I was asking what is the average size, that you can personally vouch for, in captivity? I know that we can argue 'til Kingdom Come about how big they get in the wild, that's not going to solve anything but get a lot of people riled up, that wasn't my intention. Also I was just using Dovii and Umbee as examples, since they are the largest commonly kept cichlids in captivity.