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Cold hardy cichlids?

I'm trying to see this from your point of view, and I can't. More life in the long run means overstocking and barren rivers and streams that are eventually going to cause ecosystems to collapse. Need an example?

Take Asian Bighead and Silver Carp, also known as those fish that jump out when boats go by. They are overloading a certain ecological niche that is depended on by all kinds of other organisms including all young fish and some adult fish like the paddlefish. This means that its going to take away food from other forms of life in the river, eventually killing off all these different things that depend on each other. Monster fish are good if they're in the correct native places.

The same thing could easily happen with convicts or any other cichlid that breeds like crazy.

If your still not convinced think of all the economical consequences. Local fisherman would be SOL, so would commercial and sport fishermen. The government is currently spending a ton of money to keep these carp out of the Great Lakes because of these consequences. look it up.

More life doesn't always necessarily lead to overstocking and barren rivers, many cases it's just another species that will live there, adding to the biodiversity.

But yes, sometimes it can lead to barren environments in the long run. Then again, in the long long run, these barren rivers, streams or whatever will eventually be repopulated by organisms. Take what happened to Krakatoa for example, it's not a fish destroying everything, but it is still a destroy-everything event, actually even worse than having a fish destroy an environment. Repopulation happened pretty much the instant the volcano stopped erupting. You can never fully destroy an environment, it will bounce back. It might not be the same species as before, but nature doesn't care at all what returns/moves in.

I do agree though, that introduced species can cause huge damage to society, in terms of destroying buildings, or harming humans, or devastating the economy or the likes. But that's issues for us, not for nature.

So yeah, I disagree that they'd be destroying nature or the likes, because nature can't care less what species live where. If they can live somewhere, good for them, if not, they either adapt or die off, and then something else comes along and nothing's the better or worse.

But I do agree that there's huge implications for humans, but we should realize that the reason why we hate invasive species is not 'to protect nature' or the likes, but 'to serve ourselves'.
 
But I guess what I'm trying to say is that one niche always depends on the other. If one falls out because of the other, then what is left is just a chain reaction till everything is dead. Nature made and ecosystem the way it is because of different adaptations in organisms meaning that organisms from different areas don't belong in that particular ecosystem because they don't fall into a niche.

They can occupy a certain niche in their original ecosystem and not harm a single thin, but somewhere else cause death of entire river systems.

And yes eventually the said river would eventually repopulate but in how much time? In that amount of time a country could rise and fall, it all depends on the circumstance of the fish killings and how fast it all happens. Something fast like a volcano or something progressive like an invasive species. It all just depends.

And how is it not an issue for nature when species are being killed off?
 
But I guess what I'm trying to say is that one niche always depends on the other. If one falls out because of the other, then what is left is just a chain reaction till everything is dead. Nature made and ecosystem the way it is because of different adaptations in organisms meaning that organisms from different areas don't belong in that particular ecosystem because they don't fall into a niche.

They can occupy a certain niche in their original ecosystem and not harm a single thin, but somewhere else cause death of entire river systems.

And yes eventually the said river would eventually repopulate but in how much time? In that amount of time a country could rise and fall, it all depends on the circumstance of the fish killings and how fast it all happens. Something fast like a volcano or something progressive like an invasive species. It all just depends.

And how is it not an issue for nature when species are being killed off?

Well what filling a niche is all about is that a species can fit the same role, and if they're better suited, then they are. Of course, the specifics are a lot more complicated, for example the new apex predator could feed more on a certain species more than others whilst it could be the reverse for the old apex predator, although both eats everything, for example. That would trigger chain reactions in which other numbers increase/decrease and the likes, but it's not as if every single time this happens the entire system collapses, which is why we still have life on Earth. After all, if every change to a system - addition of diseases, or plants, or animals, or change in temperature or rainfall or whatever - disrupts it to the point of irreversible damage and so quickly then well yeah, barren lands all over would be what's around. Of course there are some systems that over time become so fine tuned that any disturbance, at all, would be bad, regardless.

But really again, nature is constantly in flux, and that's the normal state all over, not the 'stable' state. After all even without intervention of other organisms, natural occurences would disrupt a community anyways, and then it'd be in flux anyways. So yes species may not 'belong' in certain other communities, but that is not to say that it's unnatural.

Which is why it's not an issue for nature when species are killed off. Because it's more natural for species to die off actually. As of right now, the number of extinct species far outnumber the number of extant species. 'Nature' really does not 'care' what dies off and what don't, it cares more about things just doing whatever it want (quite literally) and if they're successful, they're successful. If they're not, they're not.

It's us who starts to concern ourselves about all this 'oh my god we must preserve this ecosystem exactly as it is' thing, which is funny as well because conservationists do such a great job of conserving the 'right' species anyways. All the talk about 'we must preserve this and that' and in the end they spend the millions of dollars they get on preserving stuff like koalas and the likes. Not saying that the conservationists can't preserve animals like that, but if their intent is to preserve the environment then it's more important to preserve stuff like insects and plants and the likes, but of course since they're not cute or cuddly society as a whole doesn't care anyways. But I digress, not the point of this.

Though I guess it does bring up something I want to emphasize - why we want to conserve anything is entirely based on our own personal viewpoints and needs. We want certain species of fish to be conserved for food reasons. We want others to be conserved because they look cute and cuddly. In my opinion there's nothing wrong with that, but we need to realize it's for our own (sometimes selfish) reasons, not for some 'we need to protect nature' bull crap, because nature doesn't need any help from us. Even if we bomb this planet and wipe out everything living on land and on the coasts, as long as we don't actually destroy the planet itself (doubt we can do that), then nature's cool. Organisms living in places not affected - deep caverns, underground, deep under water, etc. etc. will eventually repopulate the planet, evolving as they adapt, creating new species and the likes. Even if somehow everything is destroyed except for bacteria, they'll eventually bounce back.

So yes, again, I agree, actually, there's reasons why we want to stop invasive species and the likes - but we must face the fact that it's not for nature, it's just for us. Which is fine imo.
 
No, you got it all wrong. Instead of spending years trying to breed a cold-loving cichlid, there's a much easier solution. If there are any koi breeders near you, you should see if you can get their most horribly deformed young and breed them together to get a cichlid-ish fish. Jk but good luck!
 
I once moved a tank of frontosa, forgot to plug in the heaters and the thank went the whole winter in the garage unheated.
When i realized the heaters where unplugged in the spring, I checked the temperature and it was 59, Im sure at least 5 degrees warmer than they had gotten during the middle of the winter.
My Uruguayan species (Crenicichla, Hoplias, Ancistrus, hemiancistrus, Gymnos, Australoheros) are at 60 right now, and swimming happily, it will hit 49 easily and they will be ok.
I have a friend who keeps his Uruguayan species outdoors in Sacramento, and they make it, thats the farthest north i know of outdoor cichlids surviving all year.
 
I 2nd the vote for sunfish. I've kept them in a pond before and they were colorful, cichlid behavior and easy to maintain. A friend of a friend has bass in his pond in Sacramento. If I were you I'd go catch a small northern pike. I think keeping one of those in a pond would be fun - if you have the space. Why bother trying to mutate a tropical species to cold water. I would like to keep my discus outside but by the time that happens maybe my great great great grandkids could enjoy them! In Hawaii it's cool to see african and south amercian cichlids swimming in the outdoor ponds at the Hilton Hawaiian Village. Last time I was there I saw a guy flyfishing on Lake Wilson in the middle of Oahu and he was fishing for arowana!! They also have peacock bass, oscars and red devils in that resovoir.
 
Hey I know why don't we introduce lion's and tigers to New Jersey and polar bear's to south America, better yet let's stop screwing the planet up and leave everything the way it is!!!
There are some older cougars already preying on the young males in New Jersey. LOL!
 
Hey I know why don't we introduce lion's and tigers to New Jersey and polar bear's to south America, better yet let's stop screwing the planet up and leave everything the way it is!!!

:shakehead So many wrong things with this statement. First of all do you really those animals have a chance of surviving in the environments you speak of them being introduced?

Second, nobody is talking about releasing invasive species, we are talking about breeding a fish for specific traits like has been done millions of times, not breeding an "invasive super killer fish" the media so often overhypes.

Lastly I suggest you go see what kind of environmental damages are being caused by businesses lobbying to dump their garbage into our water bodies and how they smog up laces like Los Angeles. Believe me, the last thing our precious native species have to worry about are animal hobbyists.
 
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