Couple questions before I drill

[ragin_cajun]

The limiting factor in all this as I see it is the overflow -- that's 1000 GPH. Anymore water than that goes into the tank, and you'll flood the tank. That's what Jeff is saying, I think.

I agree with Jeff. I would highly recommend having more overflow and drain pipe diameter than the pumps could ever possibly output.

The size of the return lines....not so crucial. If they're 3/4 inch, they'll be a little higher pressure, if they're 1 inch, they'll provide the same flow rate at lower pressure, may be a little easier on the pumps.

I think the drain rate is the real concern here.

 

[Jhay3513]

The limiting factor in all this as I see it is the overflow -- that's 1000 GPH. Anymore water than that goes into the tank, and you'll flood the tank. That's what Jeff is saying, I think.

I agree with Jeff. I would highly recommend having more overflow and drain pipe diameter than the pumps could ever possibly output.

The size of the return lines....not so crucial. If they're 3/4 inch, they'll be a little higher pressure, if they're 1 inch, they'll provide the same flow rate at lower pressure, may be a little easier on the pumps.

I think the drain rate is the real concern here.

Yep you're exactly right. If I turn my pump to level 2 it starts filling my overflow way too fast and starts surging level 3 it's not even "over flowing" into the over flow any more. I thought about modifying mine into a siphon style but for my set up the additional flow is pretty pointless. I'm probably going to grab one of the Jebao wave makers and use that for additional flow inside of the aquarium. I can't seem to get the outputs set right to push food and other nasties towards the over flow. It all kinda swirls in the middle

 

[Mrw3ss]

I had no idea those pumps were so powerful even on the low settings.

I've been tossing around the idea of buying a second overflow of the same type for the tank which could give me a potential of 2kgph max. I could of course limit this with a ball valve to get the desired flow. My thinking is if I'm going to drill the tank I'd rather have the option for more flow if i needed it in the future.

 

[ragin_cajun]

I can't seem to get the outputs set right to push food and other nasties towards the over flow. It all kinda swirls in the middle

If you've never had a tank with overflows and a sump.....be patient about this. When I first set up my 540, I was very concerned about this, started pricing out bigger pumps, etc. After a day or two, it all settled down and the water is pretty clean. It's hard to describe, but it just seems like solids take a little while to get filtered out with overflows and weirs at the top. Have faith, if solids are suspended in the water column, then they're gonna get filtered out. And if your flow rate is high enough, they'll come out faster than fish can put them in. It just takes some time.

 

[Jhay3513]

If you've never had a tank with overflows and a sump.....be patient about this. When I first set up my 540, I was very concerned about this, started pricing out bigger pumps, etc. After a day or two, it all settled down and the water is pretty clean. It's hard to describe, but it just seems like solids take a little while to get filtered out with overflows and weirs at the top. Have faith, if solids are suspended in the water column, then they're gonna get filtered out. And if your flow rate is high enough, they'll come out faster than fish can put them in. It just takes some time.

Sounds good. It just seems like I can't get the right flow pattern with the dual outputs that I want lol

 

[Jhay3513]

I had no idea those pumps were so powerful even on the low settings.

I've been tossing around the idea of buying a second overflow of the same type for the tank which could give me a potential of 2kgph max. I could of course limit this with a ball valve to get the desired flow. My thinking is if I'm going to drill the tank I'd rather have the option for more flow if i needed it in the future.

Yep That pump is rated between 2377 and 3170 GPH

 

[Mrw3ss]

To this point I've only ever used HOB and canisters so this is all new to me. There is also a lot of almost conflicting info online. It sounds like I may be missing something.
My main goal is to have enough filtration to handle my rays and SA cichlids in my 220. This is achieved by having enough water travel through the filter to remove all the harmful bits.
Some sources say for freshwater you only need about 4 turns of the tank per hour. In my case that would be 880gph. Some other sources say I need about 7 and some say up to 10 which seems excessive to me at 2,200gph.
With the one overflow that I currently have I can reach 1000gph if I max it out, obviously if I add a second I could get somewhere around 2000gph but I would probably keep it to around 1500gph and see how that goes. By going with the jaebo DC pump I can limit the flow rate to whatever I need it to be.

If that all seems logical what does adding powerheads (which to me is the little internal fans) do to increase your filtration of flow rate? As far as I knew powerheads were just for making current in the tank and eliminating dead spots. How does this effect filtration?

Sorry it's so long, wanted to be as clear as possible.

 

[Jhay3513]

To this point I've only ever used HOB and canisters so this is all new to me. There is also a lot of almost conflicting info online. It sounds like I may be missing something.
My main goal is to have enough filtration to handle my rays and SA cichlids in my 220. This is achieved by having enough water travel through the filter to remove all the harmful bits.
Some sources say for freshwater you only need about 4 turns of the tank per hour. In my case that would be 880gph. Some other sources say I need about 7 and some say up to 10 which seems excessive to me at 2,200gph.
With the one overflow that I currently have I can reach 1000gph if I max it out, obviously if I add a second I could get somewhere around 2000gph but I would probably keep it to around 1500gph and see how that goes. By going with the jaebo DC pump I can limit the flow rate to whatever I need it to be.

If that all seems logical what does adding powerheads (which to me is the little internal fans) do to increase your filtration of flow rate? As far as I knew powerheads were just for making current in the tank and eliminating dead spots. How does this effect filtration?

Sorry it's so long, wanted to be as clear as possible.

No need to apologize. With a sump and the shear volume of bio filtration that they are able to hold you are able to achieve maximum filtration without necessarily running your aquarium at the maximum "recommended" flow rate. When running a sump you match your pump to your over flow which is more important because no matter how powerful your pump is the overflow can only return but so much of it back to the sump. If I were you I'd add a ball valve to the return plumbing the divert some of the water back into the sump just in case the pump is providing more flow than the overflow can handle. You use the powerheads to make up the additional turns per hour. If you have enough bio filtration media in your sump your fish will be fine. Here is a picture of my sump

There are theories about low flow sumps vs high flow sumps and which one is better for biological filtration. I've never had a cycle crash while running a sump and that's probably mostly due to having so much more bio media available than you can stuff in even the largest canister filters.

To put that into prospective that bag on the left is all of the bio media and filter floss that came out of my fluval canister that I used to seed this sump. You'll be fine with the lower turn over through the sump and supplementing with a power head for additional turnover inside the actual display tank

 

[Jhay3513]

This is a pretty good write up on it. Ignore any protein skimmer talk but the rest applies to us with freshwater
http://gmacreef.com/turnover-flow-rate-through-sump-reef-tank/

 

[Mrw3ss]

Thanks for the info.

Now let me ask you this. Wouldn't it be better to just get the second overflow and drill for it and just not use it if I don't need it? It could be a potential for a few wasted dollars, but if I build this thing and don't end up having enough flow I'm going to be screwed.

Secondly, is there any difference depending on where the overflows are placed on the back of the tank. Like more toward the ends or evenly spaced or what not.