Dorado ID... frankie or brassie?

[dogofwar]

If the definition of the species is that it's endemic to a certain location, then fish NOT from that location can't be that species. No matter what it looks like.

It is, thus, NOT S. franciscanus.

So what is it?

The only species of Salminus found in Paraguay (as far as I know) is S. brasiliensis. Does the fish differ in significant ways from the species description of S. brasiliensis? http://www.fishbase.se/summary/Salminus-brasiliensis.html

How other than the "book" definition of a species is there to differentiate a species? Everyone just makes them up?!

Matt

I know what it is. And I can read that that is where it comes from as well. You're going by the book (so to speak) to much though don't you think, it's location indicates it's a species that it doesn't look like, but I guess that makes sense to you because the "book" says so right?

 

[DB junkie]

Sometimes it's easier to forget the "scientific" crap, cause it just gets more confusing. Unless you just enjoy arguing "scientific" with people that could care less. I let people like Rob (Chixulub) translate it into stuff we can understand.

He did a great job with all the ATF confusion, ironed out the Goonch maddness, and did a great job with the Dorado stickie.

3 Cheers for Rob!!!!

 

[moe214]

^yes, it isn't as easy as he makes it look lol...

If the definition of the species is that it's endemic to a certain location, then fish NOT from that location can't be that species. No matter what it looks like.

It is, thus, NOT S. franciscanus.

So what is it?

The only species of Salminus found in Paraguay (as far as I know) is S. brasiliensis. Does the fish differ in significant ways from the species description of S. brasiliensis? http://www.fishbase.se/summary/Salminus-brasiliensis.html

How other than the "book" definition of a species is there to differentiate a species? Everyone just makes them up?!

Matt

And so a fish from that location can't be that animal? That is an ignorant statement. People migrate, birds migrate, FISH migrate, and so do plenty of other species of animals. You're stating there's no possibility basically, what if it moved closer and closer to that location over time, then came to a stop but someone caught some there to maybe try and keep they got to big they released the fish elsewhere now it's farther from where it should be, then they establish theirselves there and the same thing happens, they're caught and moved, by natives who don't mean any harm. And they get farther and farther from their original location, but they never stopped be a Franky. Scientist are people, people make mistakes, it's possible they didn't have luck catching any in another area cause maybe the diet is different or the fishes feeding habits or whatever changed, there is to many variable you aren't considering that increase the chance of them living elsewhere. But this is going nowhere, so you have your opinion I have mine, regardless of what the "book" says. Things change everyday, whether it's small or not it happens, you can't just go by the "book". But I see I cannot change your mind and your not changing mine, lol we're both stubborn.

 

[dogofwar]

SMH

You guys have fun wallowing in your stupidity...

Matt

^yes, it isn't as easy as he makes it look lol...

And so a fish from that location can't be that animal? That is an ignorant statement. People migrate, birds migrate, FISH migrate, and so do plenty of other species of animals. You're stating there's no possibility basically, what if it moved closer and closer to that location over time, then came to a stop but someone caught some there to maybe try and keep they got to big they released the fish elsewhere now it's farther from where it should be, then they establish theirselves there and the same thing happens, they're caught and moved, by natives who don't mean any harm. And they get farther and farther from their original location, but they never stopped be a Franky. Scientist are people, people make mistakes, it's possible they didn't have luck catching any in another area cause maybe the diet is different or the fishes feeding habits or whatever changed, there is to many variable you aren't considering that increase the chance of them living elsewhere. But this is going nowhere, so you have your opinion I have mine, regardless of what the "book" says. Things change everyday, whether it's small or not it happens, you can't just go by the "book". But I see I cannot change your mind and your not changing mine, lol we're both stubborn.

 

[DB junkie]

SMH

You guys have fun wallowing in your stupidity...

Matt

Are Frankies farm raised down there to deal with the high demand for export? IF they are then who down there is going to give a rats ass where they really came from originally?

Do Burmese Pythons come from the Everglades? Sure. They do now. BUT do they technically? Same stupid arguement is it not?

 

[moe214]

SMH

You guys have fun wallowing in your stupidity...

Matt

If accepting new things such as change and possibilities is called stupidity, will do. And I forgot Frankie's are said to be farm raised, so who's to say it didn't come from a farm in Paraguay, or the farm doesn't release them in the wild as a game fish while keeping the numbers controlled?

 

[dogofwar]

Yes - clearly the most logical explanation is that someone brought a population of S. franciscanus from Eastern Brazil to Paraguay to breed them for the aquarium trade...when S. brasiliensis are native there.

Wallow on...

Matt

If accepting new things such as change and possibilities is called stupidity, will do. And I forgot Frankie's are said to be farm raised, so who's to say it didn't come from a farm in Paraguay, or the farm doesn't release them in the wild as a game fish while keeping the numbers controlled?

 

[moe214]

Yes - clearly the most logical explanation is that someone brought a population of S. franciscanus from Eastern Brazil to Paraguay to breed them for the aquarium trade...when S. brasiliensis are native there.

Wallow on...

Matt

Why wouldn't they, if there's a demand, they can make money off of it. And there is definitely a demand. People do it every day with things you'd never expect so why not a fish?

 

[DB junkie]

Has the thought ever crossed your mind that exporters say anything it takes to move fish?

Why not let customers think they "stole" a fish that should cost a lot for a little bit of nothing.

Hey Matt - why not just call Wes out and tell him he's full of shiat about this whole "brassy" Dorado thing. That's what this is all about right? Why beat around the bush? You seem like the type that enjoys confrontation - so why not?

 

[dogofwar]

I don't know Wes or what "this whole Brassy dorado thing" is.

S. brasiliensis isn't rare in Uruguay. What they're worth is up to the market. In season, you can buy them to eat...or catch little ones to big ones all over the place.

To me it seems pretty simple: There is only one native Salminus species found in the (reported) collection location of the fish in question and that species is S. brasiliensis.

Could someone make up a collection location or make up their own species definitions or bring non-native fish to Paraguay? Sure. Does it make sense? Not really...

Matt