Electric Blue Jack Dempsey hybrid or not?

[myster619]

From what I understand that these are a mutated version of the original Jack Dempsey. They are not naturally occurring although they do breed to produce normal looking JDs hence they are not hybrids. Although I have heard reports that experts such as Juan Miguel and Rusty Wessels have said that they are a hybrid descending from Cuban cichlids.

Is there a scientific paper article or evidence that puts an end to this debate?

 

[Blue Bear]

I'm pretty sure it's a natural occurrence, however they breed them to exploit that mutation, and give better odds of the "blue gene". I could be wrong. I don't see how a Cuban x JD would make an EBJD.

 

[Aquanero]

Not hybrids. A natural occurring recessive blue gene morph.

 

[Woefulrelic]

Since I haven't done any research and because it's relevant, I'll ask a question. Are all the EB variants, as see in acara, JD, and rams, related and can this be reproduced in many cichlids?

 

[Buphy]

I don't know how I missed this but as said before, 100% not hybrid. It's a recessive gene (like red hair).

 

[myster619]

Alright thanks guys.

 

[RD.]

Just for the record, there has not been any definitive proof one way or the other that can prove whether EBJD are hybrids, or not. Even the DNA work that has been performed to date has not been conclusive. So the answer to your question would be no, no matter what anyone on a public forum personally believes, there is no scientific paper or article or any evidence that will put an end to this debate.

 

[Buphy]

There is indeed "definite proof" that its a genetic mutation and not a hybrid... The fact that you can breed 2 normal looking JD (that both carry the ressessive blue gene) and 25% of the off spring should come out as electric blues is very much proof. It's simple genetics you learned in middle/high school. This same "ressessive gene" appearing and not appearing can be found in many other animals and humans.

 

[ShadowP]

There is indeed "definite proof" that its a genetic mutation and not a hybrid... The fact that you can breed 2 normal looking JD (that both carry the ressessive blue gene) and 25% of the off spring should come out as electric blues is very much proof. It's simple genetics you learned in middle/high school. This same "ressessive gene" appearing and not appearing can be found in many other animals and humans.

Sorry Buphy... didn't get back to you soon enough. That still leaves the question of the originating source for the Electric Blue recessive genes. You are correct in the outcome when breeding carriers of the gene though.

 

[ShadowP]

Since I haven't done any research and because it's relevant, I'll ask a question. Are all the EB variants, as see in acara, JD, and rams, related and can this be reproduced in many cichlids?

The answer is a not so simple YES.
Take a similar species displaying the EB trait and strip it of its roe or milt and invitro mix with the milt or roe of the non EB species. The result if viable, is hybrids carrying the recessive gene. Now breed them together and 25% are displaying. Strip a displaying hybrid and invitro to the target non EB species and repeat, again breeding the young to each other.
1st gen is 50% target species. 3rd gen is 75% target species. 5th gen is 87.5% target species. 7th gen is 93.75% tsrget species and so on til the 15th gen at 99.609375% JD (iif JD was the target species) and for example... the EB acara the contributor. The hard part is finding the viable young producing stepping stones, as many hybrids tend to be sterile, even in the first generation. This method would also produce many genetic "throwbacks" and deformities which we do see but can't quite pinpoint the source. The DNA tests as RD stated have proven inconclusive one way or the other and that would hold true for any given species where the "form" genes of the EB contributors were bred out by continuous inbreeding back to the target species gene pool.
There is always some genetic diversity, even within a species. If it's close enough to the original target DNA , all the testing in the world could never conclusively tell the difference.
If the EBJD originated as a hybridized line, those stepping stone species crosses are a much guarded secret because they can lead to other EB "discoveries"
How about an Electric Blue Oscar? Anyone want one?
Sign me up too!