Fleshy's 125g Build

[Ashlee]

http://www.saltwatersuccess.com/Saltwater-Aquarium-Protein-Skimmers-Yeah-and-Nay.html

here you go fleshy..

if that isn't enough then you can do a google search yourself. The info is everywhere.

I am done typing now, hopefully kevin can clear up some of the loose ends.. he is more knowledgeable than anyone else here..

 

[Ashlee]

 

[FLESHY]

No comment

Asking for visual proof of a major reef keeping facility isnt prooving himself wrong.

There is no way you could go without dosing calcium on SPS corals on long interval water changes. Given their hard skeletal structure, they love it.

Cannisters typically dont provide sufficient agitation of water, and neither do skimmers. Hence his oxy supplementation. I think what he was saying is that super high oxy levels arent anything to thump on.

200$ is honestly chicken scratch when it comes to saltwater setups, and cheap when it comes to a skimmer since they can get to high 300's. (Im not saying your skimmer is cheap Fleshy)

Copepods are a treat more then anything else, not sustainable in large tanks. You can't grow enough pods in a fuge to properly feed a well stocked coral tank.


This is turning into a Pee Pee match.




Edit since you edited your message.

A sump is no better then a cannister in this situation because his biological filtration is already more then suffiecient with the LR and sand bed. And for someone who is so concerned about nutrient depeletion, wet-drys are far worse about that then a cannister. Thats a contradictory reccomendation.

And not all softys are as easy to care for as you think.

Thank you...Im done responding to that.

I asked validation, some things were brought up, and I have explained several times why I am going the route that I am.

 

[Kevin8888]

First off, Id like to say thanks to Kevin for a realistic rebuttal. Now, to shut this one down.
Thanks I try to stay impartial haha, but apparently people think I'm still needed haha so I'm going to try to clearify some more things hopefully.
Show me the one major coral prop facility in the US that doesnt use a skimmer.
You are most likely right here, the reason being in large scale operations a scrubbers are impractical do to space and maininance (as yes cleaning a scrubber is more time consuming the dumping a cup of slime lol).
my nutrient levels are not being depleted by my skimmers. Thats laughable. I test with salifert test kits, and nothing is being effected by my skimmers. I have large ammounts of fast growing sps and lps and hardly even need to dose for calcium or 3-part. I also feed my corals a mix of foods, so Im not that concerned about losing the copepods that arent really in my tank anyways.
I have to agree with you on this one much to others disapointment, the amounts of testable trace elements removed by skimmers is minimal. BUT it removes other good things such as organic vitimins that can be used by the corals. BUT these are replaced if there is proper feeding in the tank for the fish/corals.
Oxygenating a reef can increase salinity! (Fluxuations are the number one reason corals die or dont do well.) Fact. - That being said, my tank has an airpump on it because it is partially covered and in systems that contain live macro algae, and have been established for a long time, not having o2 exchange can lead to pH fluxuations. And as I already mentioned, fluxuations = bad.
This is partially wrong, and is basic chemisty. Oxygenation will not increase salinity... a) where is this salt coming from? b) when you add a dissolved substance to the water something has to fall out before the new substance "dissolve". Therefore if anything O2 will not affect salinity in any noticable way.Yes pH flux is bad, but scrubbers used correctly will remove the CO2 in the water which yes will temporarily chause a slite chance in pH but that is easily fixed with a calcium or sodium based buffer, and once its fixed it shouldn't fluctuate any more.
Show me your numbers on your skimmer "stripping" elements. I just dont see any science behind that. You show me scientific research that supports this I will throw my skimmer out of my bedroom window and not filter my water at all.
Again minimal at best removal of testable trace elements, skimmers almost solely remove organics.
I have very few animals in my tank that are exclusively filter feeders. Most corals get their energy from the sun. 95% of that energy. I still feed them and thats why they do so well.
I have maybe two corals in my tank that NEED to be fed, and I dont feed one of them and its still growing faster than most peoples.
Yes filter feeders benifit most from scrubbers. Corals getting most energy from the sun is a common misconseption, corals obain huge amounts of energy from food and do much better when its available and the do NEED food. That being said, every system has food free floating all the time, maybe from feeding, maybe pods, but there is always food around that the corals can eat so not hand feeding usualy isnt an issue. BUT either way your corals are clearly successful so again if it aint broke dont fix it.
I use well water, spend a miniscule ammount of money when broken down per day on salt, dont need to supplement nutrients frequently, and $9 of coral food has lasted me almost two years now. Hard to beat water parameters of 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 0 nitrate. My tank gets bi-weekly water changes, and sometimes goes a third week...no changes. Yes, I have live macro algae growing in my tank, and thats part of the reason, but it also has a waste-machine (tang) and two clowns. I dont believe that your water quality is better than mine, and I havent seen any results from you. Are you even a reefer?
Macros are always good (so long as they arent taking over) and tangs keeping macros in check is even better. Clearly you have a good balance between waste producers, waste consumers and mechanical. As I said before (I think) I just preffer doing things more naturaly and keep mechanical like skimmers and wet/drys to a minimum.
ocean does have a skimmer, the wave action makes sea foam and washes it up on shore.
Not trying to start a fight... but the "foam" produced from waves doesn't have a huge impact on the quality of the water... Almost all if not all, the cleaning of the ocean is done by bacteria in the sand/rocks/whatever and then sucked up by miles of macros and tons of phytos.

Again just trying to keep non-biased... even if it may seem like I'm not, you clearly have an effective setup, even if some of your info isn't 100% correct. Oh and I did cut bits out of the quote but they were not what I was discussing lol. So again not trying to offend you or anyone else, just trying to get more good facts out to those who need it. Oh and sumps are good in general Heathd, as they add water volume which increases stability, yes biofiltration may be good as is, but more water is better when ever possible.

 

[Heathd]

Again just trying to keep non-biased... even if it may seem like I'm not, you clearly have an effective setup, even if some of your info isn't 100% correct. Oh and I did cut bits out of the quote but they were not what I was discussing lol. So again not trying to offend you or anyone else, just trying to get more good facts out to those who need it. Oh and sumps are good in general Heathd, as they add water volume which increases stability, yes biofiltration may be good as is, but more water is better when ever possible.

Never said they were bad Kevo, the thought of making a sump for my setup has crossed my mind more then once. Just throwing that out there as a tic for tac retort since her name reasoning behind skimmers being bad is nutrition depletion.

 

[Kevin8888]

Never said they were bad Kevo, the thought of making a sump for my setup has crossed my mind more then once. Just throwing that out there as a tic for tac retort since her name reasoning behind skimmers being bad is nutrition depletion.

That is true, you just didnt say they were good either so i threw it in haha.

 

[FLESHY]

I would recommend a sump to anyone and everyone that has the means, I would also say that if you can have 24 hr lighting down there to put macro's in it. I have macro in my tank because the tang likes it, helps water quality, and I dont/cant have a sump. Maybe I could have one now that I have an actual aquarium stand, but how well do the hang on tank overflows do?

Aeration affects salinity by increasing the evap rate...it might not be major, but many reefers wont aerate because of this. I have to for pH reasons, and luckily my top off is very well documented and is consistent so my corals are happy.

Waves not might remove much, but it is the skimming action at work. There are many different things that filter the ocean, and try as we might I dont think we can mimic any one of them perfectly. Thats why we still have to do water changes.

Corals do need to feed, and mine are feed micro foods, whatever live foods are in the tank, large meaty foods (where applicable) and the best coral food available to us as hobbyists...fish poo. (This is probably the worst thing that my skimmer does)

Thanks kevin for the impartiality...

This all being said, we will take ashlee and the cannucks advice. Does anyone have experience with a HOT overflow? I have always wanted to sump, but thats the only way its going to happen on this tank. What do people think of having two koralia magnum 8's facing each other on far ends? I will add the fours on the back wall where needed when I make the full conversion. (I currently have three fours on my 75)

Thanks

oh, ps. Will have pictures of my softies up tomorrow...mainly for those interested in buying. My for sale thread got shut down because of the fact that it was 50 different sales in one and that I didnt state prices. I feel that everything should be negotiable though.

 

[Heathd]

I would recommend a sump to anyone and everyone that has the means, I would also say that if you can have 24 hr lighting down there to put macro's in it. I have macro in my tank because the tang likes it, helps water quality, and I dont/cant have a sump. Maybe I could have one now that I have an actual aquarium stand, but how well do the hang on tank overflows do?

Aeration affects salinity by increasing the evap rate...it might not be major, but many reefers wont aerate because of this. I have to for pH reasons, and luckily my top off is very well documented and is consistent so my corals are happy.

Waves not might remove much, but it is the skimming action at work. There are many different things that filter the ocean, and try as we might I dont think we can mimic any one of them perfectly. Thats why we still have to do water changes.

Corals do need to feed, and mine are feed micro foods, whatever live foods are in the tank, large meaty foods (where applicable) and the best coral food available to us as hobbyists...fish poo. (This is probably the worst thing that my skimmer does)

Thanks kevin for the impartiality...

This all being said, we will take ashlee and the cannucks advice. Does anyone have experience with a HOT overflow? I have always wanted to sump, but thats the only way its going to happen on this tank. What do people think of having two koralia magnum 8's facing each other on far ends? I will add the fours on the back wall where needed when I make the full conversion. (I currently have three fours on my 75)

Thanks

oh, ps. Will have pictures of my softies up tomorrow...mainly for those interested in buying. My for sale thread got shut down because of the fact that it was 50 different sales in one and that I didnt state prices. I feel that everything should be negotiable though.

The koralia 8's push some serious water, i think you would be fine up top with them. It would be great for regional flow definition (high up top, medium, low on the low).

As far as sumps go, I am currently building one. I decided to say to hell with it and just incorporate in the ATS, and even do a DSB at the base of the fuge... i know how much you like them. With pump I will spend less then 225 on this sump (I had to buy some tools)


I have no over flows in mind yet, but I am currently thinking about doing a diy out of pvc. Its ugly, and its budget friendly. Im also thinking about doing a spray bar for the return, but I am torn on that thought. I can also move the skimmer down to the fuge and have a cleaner looking take up top.

I tore down two ten gallons, and bought a new 30 gallon for 30 bucks at petslow... couldnt pass it up. The ten gallon panes are being used as the dividers in the 30.

 

[Kevin8888]

I would recommend a sump to anyone and everyone that has the means, I would also say that if you can have 24 hr lighting down there to put macro's in it. I have macro in my tank because the tang likes it, helps water quality, and I dont/cant have a sump. Maybe I could have one now that I have an actual aquarium stand, but how well do the hang on tank overflows do?
Oh for sure macros in sump and in tank always good (assuming they dont take over haha). HOB overflows can be good and they can be bad it really depends on which, I have little experience as most of my tanks in the past have be DIY with the back wall lower then the water level so as to create a built in overflow. I would say syphon but if the water level gets to low then the syphon can break (as I would never suggest a bottom of the tank syphon to many risks of flooding).
Aeration affects salinity by increasing the evap rate...it might not be major, but many reefers wont aerate because of this. I have to for pH reasons, and luckily my top off is very well documented and is consistent so my corals are happy.
That is very true, I never thought to mention it as I my tanks have auto-topoffs haha.
Waves not might remove much, but it is the skimming action at work. There are many different things that filter the ocean, and try as we might I dont think we can mimic any one of them perfectly. Thats why we still have to do water changes.
True, but with the right now-how and a bit of effort those water changes can be cut down.
Corals do need to feed, and mine are feed micro foods, whatever live foods are in the tank, large meaty foods (where applicable) and the best coral food available to us as hobbyists...fish poo. (This is probably the worst thing that my skimmer does)
HAHA poo that is definatly a food for many things, and like I said, if you feed your fish you technicaly feed your corals. The problem is filter feeders (since you said you didn't really have any not a big deal) as skimmers can remove huge amounts of mirco plantons that filiter feeders love, but at the same time they get replaced as well.
Thanks kevin for the impartiality...
Again I always try to stay that way, forum fights are hard to deal with can can cause problems that I like to avoid haha.
This all being said, we will take ashlee and the cannucks advice. Does anyone have experience with a HOT overflow? I have always wanted to sump, but thats the only way its going to happen on this tank. What do people think of having two koralia magnum 8's facing each other on far ends? I will add the fours on the back wall where needed when I make the full conversion. (I currently have three fours on my 75)
Again not much knowledge on the HOB overflows, but if you look around on various sites I'm sure you can find some that come well recomened, the problem I dont like is finding the correct size for your tank as if they cant suck enough water there is a problem haha. Maybe one of these? http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewI...=CPR&idProduct=CR1511&IdCategory=FIOFEB&tab=0
I feel like 2 magnums are over kill thats like 6500gph you only need around 1250gph for a 125g tank haha, one would be more then enough I would think... though I would go with 2 or 3 smaller ones... But at the same time I dont use powerheads I use my pump returns for flow using a complex aray of tubing haha, so I may not be the best source.
oh, ps. Will have pictures of my softies up tomorrow...mainly for those interested in buying. My for sale thread got shut down because of the fact that it was 50 different sales in one and that I didnt state prices. I feel that everything should be negotiable though.
Wonderful aways like to see pics, I'd buy but my tank was disassembled resently and can't start a new one for a wile untill I have a more perminant residence lol (as my next one is going to be minimum 500gal up to a max of 1500gal yay).

Enjoy the your tank though!!!

 

[FLESHY]

Well I AM thinking sump now for filtration. Thanks canuck.

The problem is that I have two overflows for skimmers on my tank now, and they arent exactly perfect...so one is always making noise even if the tank doesnt need to be topped off. I feel that the HOT ones are kinda sketch. I wish we had someone that could speak more on the subject.

Like I said...I am known to like some flow. They would point each other and make waves in the middle. (Thats what my two fours do in my 75, plus a third in the back to make the flow even more unpredictable) Maybe I just need to buy them and see how much damage they do.

As you can see in my display picture, fish poo can be food for filter feeders too. That was the strangest thing ever...my clown decided to host in a tubeworm.