Hikari vs. NLS

[cchhcc]

Here you go RD...... All these fish were raised on nearly 100% NLS. The only other foods they received was occassional mysis for the purpose of allowing the little guys to chow down something they had to chase, keeping the big guys from hogging all the pellets. The only other food I feed is Omega Veggie Wafers, and that's only because my big male dovii has ME trained. He doesn't like floaters, and NLS doesn't make a sinker big enough for him to be bothered with.

By the way, all these photos are raw. I don't know how to sharpen, cleanup, etc.....and certainly no Photoshop!

Before:

After:

 

[RD.]

That's what I'm talking 'bout!




BTW - some locals here have raised various carnivores, including some stunning stingrays, AU lungfish, etc on the NLS wafers. Just something to consider if you're interested in trying them out. Also, here's a little inside tip, in the near future New Life is going to be manufacturing a "monster" pellet size, for those that want a larger and even more nutrient dense option.

Thanks for posting those pics, some amazing specimens.

 

[gilkm]

I have not read the whole thread, but I found a new food that I have been very happy with. It is the AZOO 9in1 pellet. My Dempsey and Jag pair love them. They are a touch smaller than the Hikari Gold medium pellets. They are really cheap on the foster smith site. I buy the 2.5 pound jug. Take a look.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4284

Ingredients:
Whole Fish Meal
Krill Meal
Spirulina
Carrot
PSB
Embryo Powder
Yeast Powder
Wheat Flower
GLucan
Multi-vitamins

 

[GMFISHNUT]

Here he is. Only NLS pellets and frozen treats for this guy.

 

[RD.]

Great shots, and stunning specimen.

Thanks for sharing those pics.

 

[Funky_Fish14]

Not to put you on the spot, but exactly what kind of nutrients would those be?

My statement was based on everything I have 'heard', and some of the written claims I have seen by both hikari and NLS. I will admit I have actually never compared the nutritional charts of Massivore and NLS. I realise thats probably stupid of me, haha, but I assumed the many people I had heard make such claims must have some basis for them. Looks like based off your post though, that they probably didnt. The NLS appears much more ideal in this case. Thanks for the clarification. (and maybe im retarded and just forgot what you said, but which NLS formula was that from?)

feeding NLS exclusively caused "dark" coloration in their fish? More intense coloration perhaps, but that's not what I would consider darker. When it comes to color enhancement, IMO that's one of the tell tale signs of a quality feed, as in it should not cause a fish that is naturally white, to turn pink, or a fish that is naturally yellow, to become orange. When these unnatural color enhancements take place it is typically caused by excessive use of synthetic color enhancing agents.

Well, I can only relay my personal experiences as I see them.
A) I never stated my fish were un-naturally bright when using hikari
B) I never said NLS made my fish turn black

I am saying that when I feed NLS only, my fish exhibit colours/patterns darker (and deeper as well) than they normally do when I am feeding NLS and hikari at the same time. When I feed only hikari, the colour patterns are again different. My fish never display un-natural colours.

I believe it is simply a more varied diet(as I feed several formulas of both NLS and hikari)) that provides for the improvement in the colours displayed by the fish. There are also a million other factors that can affect it, but as I have seen, not as many of the 'brights' are displayed when on NLS only, but Hikari only does not achieve the same 'depth' of colour NLS produces.

Hope this clarifies,

Cheers,

Chris


(Upon further consideration - I realize the darkening is not the case with all of my fish. My convicts(bred for feeders) and julidochromis are actually incredibly deeply coloured, with some very nice bright highlighting on their fins. I notice the darkening in particular with my 2 of my parachromis, and 3 of my crenicichla)

 

[Funky_Fish14]

RD. (Neil, right?).... I think you need to get off your NLS high-horse. You poop yourself every time someone says something you dont agree with about NLS. NLS is a great food, I never said it wasnt. I use it with ALL of my fish. I love it. IT IS NOT PERFECT. No food is. Each food, whether you like it or not, offers advantages over other foods. Each person with a different food will have different experiences.

On every forum I see you, if someone says anything about NLS that they had a bad experience with, or a result that isnt 'perfect', you must challenge them and essentially call them wrong. What about bad experiences with hikari? Are those people then not wrong because you arent a hikari supplier?

Its annoying to see you **** on everyone who doesn't praise NLS. Please attempt a more objective point of view when people comment on it. (this does not pertain to your comparison of the massivore and NLS formulas)

Chris

 

[RD.]

Hi Chris,

In the past I fed Hikari, for years, along with most other foods currently on the market, it's not like I was born with a container of NLS in my hands. I also have no problem with anyone posting their personal experiences, good or bad, with any product. I happen to recommend a number of aquatic products, that I use, and don't sell.
Is that ok?

I'm not crapping on anyone, I was simply asking for some clarification as to what you were basing your nutrient level opinion on. (Massivore vs NLS) Apparently you based it on what you have heard/read, I base mine on science, experience, and common sense. The overall nutritional value in any food is going to be based on a LOT more than just what the crude protein content on the label is. That was my main point, as this is a common mistake made by many hobbyists. So I asked yourself & another poster what you/they were basing that comment on, and if that somehow embarrassed anyone in this discussion, my apologies.


As I've stated in the past, I'm willing to own each & every word that I post on a public forum, and I have always invited anyone to refute anything that I post that someone may feel is incorrect. I don't make things up as I go along, and I don't base my opinions on what others have to say. I never was good at being a follower.

Allowing bogus info to go unchallenged is precisely how many of the urban myths in this hobby have been created. I don't see that type of behavior as being productive, or helping this hobby grow. While sometimes it would be much easier for me to sit on my hands to ensure that I never offend anyone, I don't see that as helping this hobby grow, either.


I understood perfectly what you initially stated about "darker" colors.
That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. No problemo.

Having fed this food exclusively for several years, and personally knowing many other hobbyists (and professionals) over the years who have done likewise, to a few hundred different species of fish (both marine & freshwater), I was simply pointing out to you that I had never heard or read that before, ever.

I said;

BTW - Having been working with various foods for many years (including Hikari), with NLS exclusively for several years now, I don't recall ever hearing or reading anyone state that feeding NLS exclusively caused "dark" coloration in their fish? More intense coloration perhaps, but that's not what I would consider darker.

And somehow you find that comment annoying, or feel that I'm crapping on you?

BTW - Over the years I have read/heard a number of people who have made bogus accusations about other fish food products (including Hikari), some even claiming that a particular brand of food killed their fish, or caused bloat, or caused a snail epidemic (as though MTS came from the food?) etc, and while this may come as a surprise to you I'm usually the first one that will step up & correct them. One of my personal pet peeves with online forums is the number of people who talk out of their arse, no matter the subject.


BTW Chris, I think you'll find that on MFK, just as on the AA forum that you used to post on, you aren't going to earn anyones respect through a lack of manners. At 50+ years of age I'm not impressed when someone throws a little online tantrum because of something I posted in reference to a comment that they made.


HTH

 

[Funky_Fish14]

Hi Chris,

In the past I fed Hikari, for years, along with most other foods currently on the market, it's not like I was born with a container of NLS in my hands. I also have no problem with anyone posting their personal experiences, good or bad, with any product. I happen to recommend a number of aquatic products, that I use, and don't sell.
Is that ok?

I'm not crapping on anyone, I was simply asking for some clarification as to what you were basing your nutrient level opinion on. (Massivore vs NLS) Apparently you based it on what you have heard/read, I base mine on science, experience, and common sense. The overall nutritional value in any food is going to be based on a LOT more than just what the crude protein content on the label is. That was my main point, as this is a common mistake made by many hobbyists. So I asked yourself & another poster what you/they were basing that comment on, and if that somehow embarrassed anyone in this discussion, my apologies.


As I've stated in the past, I'm willing to own each & every word that I post on a public forum, and I have always invited anyone to refute anything that I post that someone may feel is incorrect. I don't make things up as I go along, and I don't base my opinions on what others have to say. I never was good at being a follower.

Allowing bogus info to go unchallenged is precisely how many of the urban myths in this hobby have been created. I don't see that type of behavior as being productive, or helping this hobby grow. While sometimes it would be much easier for me to sit on my hands to ensure that I never offend anyone, I don't see that as helping this hobby grow, either.


I understood perfectly what you initially stated about "darker" colors.
That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. No problemo.

Having fed this food exclusively for several years, and personally knowing many other hobbyists (and professionals) over the years who have done likewise, to a few hundred different species of fish (both marine & freshwater), I was simply pointing out to you that I had never heard or read that before, ever.

I said;

And somehow you find that comment annoying, or feel that I'm crapping on you?

BTW - Over the years I have read/heard a number of people who have made bogus accusations about other fish food products (including Hikari), some even claiming that a particular brand of food killed their fish, or caused bloat, or caused a snail epidemic (as though MTS came from the food?) etc, and while this may come as a surprise to you I'm usually the first one that will step up & correct them. One of my personal pet peeves with online forums is the number of people who talk out of their arse, no matter the subject.


BTW Chris, I think you'll find that on MFK, just as on the AA forum that you used to post on, you aren't going to earn anyones respect through a lack of manners. At 50+ years of age I'm not impressed when someone throws a little tantrum because of something I posted in reference to a comment that they made. Especially when I know that 9 times out of 10, that same person wouldn't have the stones to talk that way to my face.
HTH

Neil,

I could care less if you were face to face with me, infact I'd probably prefer it. Conversations in person are much clearer than those written. Making a comment stating most people wouldnt have the stones to talk 'that way' to your face is childish. I was not even talking 'that way'. I would tell you everything I said above in a normal tone.

I already stated, clearly, that I was not making reference to the discussion about the composition of/energy contained in NLS vs. Hikari. I also acknowledged that my statement was based on what I had been told by others, and that i had not researched it. Need you drag on such a topic and continue to suggest I was uneducated, when I already stated it several times myself? You indeed are making a bigger deal out of it. You may even notice I typed in a laugh in my post responding to your question. So much for talking 'that way', or being offended.

If you understood perfectly well what I meant about the 'darker' colours, then why at all did you draw question to what I was saying and imply others should post 'lving proof' that that is not the case? Again, you are picking apart what I said about my experience with NLS. If you understood what I meant, and knew it was simply my experience (to which I am clearly entitled to, as it already happened to me), then no clarification request was nessesary on your part, and you didnt have to launch a picture proof request campain.

Thank-you for trying to fire the blame back my way,

Cheers,

Chris

 

[RD.]

Even though in many cases in the past I found it to be very true, you're right, I shouldn't have said that, which is why I edited it out, before your response. At the same time I think that the "high horse" and "$H!t on everyone who doesn't praise NLS" comments were also totally uncalled for.

If some feel that I am sitting on a high horse, it usually boils down to the fact that I do happen to know what I am talking about, no matter the food product, be it prepared, or live/frozen food. This isn't my first rodeo. I'm not going to apologize for being very well versed in this subject, and if you stick around long enough I think you'll find that I am just as willing to assist those who feed nothing but frozen/live, as I am those who feed pellet/flake food.

If you go back & re-read my entire comment with regards to the photo requests, it was in reference to; "When it comes to color enhancement, IMO that's one of the tell tale signs of a quality feed, as in it should not cause a fish that is naturally white, to turn pink, or a fish that is naturally yellow, to become orange. When these unnatural color enhancements take place it is typically caused by excessive use of synthetic color enhancing agents."


How that somehow equates to a "launch a picture proof request campaign" is beyond me? If that's all I was wanting I could have simply posted a link to a gallery with scores of bright, colorful fish, all fed NLS exclusively, or as the main staple. Personally I just wanted to see that 17" blue umbee (if that's ok with you?), and cchhcc's fish are a prime example of what I consider natural color enhancement. (I've seen pics of his wild caught RD's in the past)

That doesn't equate to me being on a high horse, or crapping on you, or anyone else, no matter how you spin it.

And while I said that you are welcome to your opinion, that doesn't mean that I have to agree with it, or necessarily won't comment on that opinion if I see fit. I would hope that if this happens again in the future (no matter the subject) you won't feel that I'm personally attacking you, or $H!tting on you, because I can assure you that is not my intention.