Im with FishingOut. If your keeping one of these fish, and even if its still alive the conditions are still inadequate, just because a couple survived doesnt mean its all good.
I need a bit of advice for Dragon Fish...
- Thread starter misstish
- Start date
A few weeks means nothing. You can keep several full marine fish in FW for a few weeks, but they'll eventually die due to not being able to osmoregulate in FW because marine fish are built to expel salt.
Likewise a full FW fish will die in full marine because they will not be able to expel salt adequately.
There are certain fish that are very good at doing both those things (striped bass being one example, salmon being another), but the majority of fish are evolved to tolerate either FW or SW long term, not both for extended periods of time.
How is your tapwater gross? What are the parameters?
Bottled water can mean various things. Some filtered waters do NOT have the components needed to house fish, especially a brackishwater fish that needs a fairly high hardness and mineral content to survive for an extended period in FW.
If you do buy sand I would get calcareous sand (usually labelled reef sand) due to the calcium and buffering it will provide, and also it will work better in a brackish tank, which I highly recommend you provide for your brackishwater fish.
Opinion on ethics really provides no true advice for the original poster. There are various extremely competent fishkeepers that experiment with keeping brackishwater fish in freshwater and what components are needed to house them long term without brackish. And it is also poorly understood whether some brackish species actually NEED to go brackish, or whether they do sometimes live long healthy lives in the wild in FW systems.
What region the fish were caught sometimes is a factor, because there may be groups of that species that are more able to tolerate FW than other groups. This could explain why some people have great luck keeping them in FW and many do not.
The 10 year remark was in regards to my husband, who was keeping this fish before internet messaging boards became popular and digicams weren't in use. So needless to say he has no posted pictures.
The length of time I've seen on average with people being able to keep them fairly successfully in FW is about 5 years. But I have seen posts and articles from people that did keep them longer than that (up to about 10 years, I have not seen mention of people keeping them in freshwater longer than that. Though I'm not actually sure of this fishes average life span.).
My response was due to the fact that you state (falsely) that these fish will NEVER survive more than a couple of months in FW. These are fish that do often spend part of their lives (possibly several years) in FW in the wild, and then will return to brackish waters.
Pufferpunk is one of the people that housed one in FW for about 5 years (but recommends keeping them in brackish and in fact has a whole page about it - if you search her name in google along with "violet goby" you should find it). And there is a post from someone else that had a 15" I believe for about 3. If you search the forum for "dragon goby" you will find these posts.
Very good, But you would have to be 1 hell of an arrogent bloke to try and keep a brackish fish in freshwater when there is a 1 in 25% chance it will live. I find little to no evidence of violet gobys thriving in FW. I understand the biological experimentation with FW fish in SW and vice versa but this isnt the case.
These "loopholes" you bring up are simply excuses for unexperienced fish keepers to keep G. brousonnetti in fresh water. Thats why walmart sells them. And people believe they can house them, only for them to die a painful death. Not fair for the Goby. They are exceptionally hard fish to care for, even experienced brackish hobbiest will say so. When you know very little about the fish "my point previously with the gold markings" it decreases the chance of thriving by 10 fold. Ive seen what happens to these fish on many occasion and its not pretty. Im trying to stop unneccesary suffering with this specie while others seem to promote it.
These "loopholes" you bring up are simply excuses for unexperienced fish keepers to keep G. brousonnetti in fresh water. Thats why walmart sells them. And people believe they can house them, only for them to die a painful death. Not fair for the Goby. They are exceptionally hard fish to care for, even experienced brackish hobbiest will say so. When you know very little about the fish "my point previously with the gold markings" it decreases the chance of thriving by 10 fold. Ive seen what happens to these fish on many occasion and its not pretty. Im trying to stop unneccesary suffering with this specie while others seem to promote it.
The "loopholes" (which they are not, I think you were looking for a different word), are not an excuse for newcomers to keep them in freshwater. They can either choose to house the fish in their optimum environment (and their optimum environment has been pointed out SEVERAL times already), or they can choose not to. I have no control over whether someone does this or not, and me berating them, as you seem to come off doing, and giving false information such as saying they NEVER survive for than a couple months in freshwater (which the OP can look up and verify is false, thus making it less likely they will take the rest of your advice), is VERY unlikely to make them change their mind.
All I can do is give them information on the probability of them surviving long term in freshwater (which is low), tell them they're mainly brackishwater fish in the wild, and information on the best way to keep them alive in freshwater if they absolutely refuse to switch to brackish. Because honestly, is the person going to switch to brackish just because I berated them for keeping them in freshwater? No. So if they're going to keep it in fresh they might as well try to at least give it a decent environment for however much time it lives, so keeping that information away from them does a disservice to the fish itself.
And honestly I have found that people take more advice if it's given in a manner that provides verifiable information rather than berating them for doing things that go against my own ethics, or trying to scare them into taking my advice. Berating people usually = they ignore your advice altogether. And how does that help the fish at all?
All I can do is give them information on the probability of them surviving long term in freshwater (which is low), tell them they're mainly brackishwater fish in the wild, and information on the best way to keep them alive in freshwater if they absolutely refuse to switch to brackish. Because honestly, is the person going to switch to brackish just because I berated them for keeping them in freshwater? No. So if they're going to keep it in fresh they might as well try to at least give it a decent environment for however much time it lives, so keeping that information away from them does a disservice to the fish itself.
And honestly I have found that people take more advice if it's given in a manner that provides verifiable information rather than berating them for doing things that go against my own ethics, or trying to scare them into taking my advice. Berating people usually = they ignore your advice altogether. And how does that help the fish at all?
This I do agree with. They are a specialized fish, and also being wildcaught and how they were handled and shipped has a large effect on people's success with keeping them healthy and alive. They're caught in brackish waters, and then put in fresh at the fish store (without acclimation) which I'm sure is hard on them since their osmoregulatory system is having to work QUICKLY to adjust to the new conditions.
Okay and why do you think I'm here getting more advice on brackish water fish? I've read the websites, I know what I need but websites don't tell everything. If I was some arrogant owner I wouldn't even be asking any of these questions! So before you call me a bad owner, get your facts straight. Please. You don't see me snapping at you for putting in your input, do you? So don't snap on me because I'm trying to get tank its in up to brackish condition so it can survive.
You want to give someone advice? Don't harass them.
You want to give someone advice? Don't harass them.
Great to hear that your setting up brackish! I used instant ocean brand marine salt for my old goby (unfortunately had to sell him cause I had to shut down his tank). Just remember, don't add to much salt at once only raising the salinity 0.002 per week or you will wipe out all the beneficial bacteria in your tank.
Note about the feeding: Dragon gobies are filter feeders, but they will eat larger things if forced to, its just not good for them. I like to feed them that cloudy water that collects at the bottom of a recently unfrozen bag of mysis or brine shrimp. They go crazy with the water gulping when you pour it down next to them
ive had my violot goby in with 3 tiger oscars and 2 common plecos for about 6months now he is 14inches long and hes in freshwater and loves swimming arround they can live in freshwater and be very happy
6 months is nothing in the life of a fish that can live into it's teens. Your Oscar will eventually be large enough to eat it.
http://www.**************.com/forum/library/misc/theres-a-dragon-in-my-tank/
Before I knew better, I kept one for 8 years in FW. It got large red growths all over it's body & died a horrible death of starvation, when one of the tumors developed in his mouth, preventing him to be able to eat anymore.
http://www.**************.com/forum/library/misc/theres-a-dragon-in-my-tank/
6 months is nothing in the life of a fish that can live into it's teens. Your Oscar will eventually be large enough to eat it.
http://www.**************.com/forum/library/misc/theres-a-dragon-in-my-tank/
Before I knew better, I kept one for 8 years in FW. It got large red growths all over it's body & died a horrible death of starvation, when one of the tumors developed in his mouth, preventing him to be able to eat anymore.
http://www.**************.com/forum/library/misc/theres-a-dragon-in-my-tank/
