I've been involved with reptiles more than anything and i just started my aquarium,(so im new) but what i do know is that when i fed the crickets healthy, that ment whatever i fed the crickets to, like my turtles, that ment they would get that nutritional value that the crickets ate. So feeding the feeder fish healtheir, could make whatever fish you feed them to healtheir. Or choosing a different type of feeder, not just common goldfish.
Live Fish As Food - Nutritional Value & Concerns
- Thread starter Oddball
- Start date
Ya know, I have an extra 60 gallon tank, Im gonna start doing the same.toxicfish;164285; said:I feed mine feeders every weekend a mix of rosies,goldfish,guppies
I keep my feeders in a cycled 55g with 2 tablespoons of salt per 10g for a week before the feeding.
I am learning alot in from this thread. Thank you all for your insights. I just have a few questions: My alligator gar & rtc love superworms. Is that healthy? Plus, i give them shrimp & squid (frozen, bought from the local wet market) & chicken liver. Is chicken liver ok for feeding? My rtc seems to like it. Oh, for their everyday food, I give them guppies. Another thing, my gar does not eat pellets. I've tried on some occasions giving him arowana pellets & chiclid pellets to no avail. My rtc loves the arowana pellets but not the chiclid pellets. Don't know why.
Oddball, this is my first post here so I hate to get off to a bad start, but your analysis on the nutritional profile of feeder goldfish is flawed. Using farm raised catfish as your jumping off point has little merit other than they are both farm raised. Though the diets are similar between feeder goldfish and catfish, the life stages you compare are not. If you had nutritional profile information that compared catfish fry to feeders, I'd buy into your analysis. The diet of a properly raised feeder consists mostly of rotifers, insects and algae. Most feeders are not fully trained onto a commercial diet until after 10 weeks of age. Feeders typically are sold after 12 weeks. Sometimes much longer, but the feed is limited to hold down growth. It would be interesting to investigate the nutritional profile of feeder goldfish at different ages, but extrapolating from a 5 lb farm raised catfish to a 2lb/1000 feeder goldfish is not doable.
There may be different values when comparing the nutritional value of feeders, at different ages, to farmed catfish. However, your argument does not address the problems associated with excessive copper use in farmed feeder goldfish, the horrendous conditions these feeders endure by the time they reach a home aquarium, nor the problems associated with thyaminase in feeders. There are much stricter guidelines in the farming of catfish since these fish are produced for human consumption.
Yes, there are certainly problems with feeders. The nutrition issue can be quantified. I suspect that a properly raised feeder will outperform any frozen or dry good available. You won't have the fatty buildup that you see in farm raised catfish or trout. The thiaminase issue can be addressed by feeding a diverse diet. I think anyone would agree that is just common sense. Some farms use excessive amounts of copper sulfate. These are the same farms which over feed and have a lot of disease issues. As a non-food fish the regulations are lax which can lead to problems. In general I would say the feeder goldfish of today is not near the product it was 20 years ago, but some farms do a better job than others.
Lay it on me. Biggest feeder gripes.
1) Nutritional value (uncertain)
2) Health (introduction of disease to the tank)
3) Possible exposure to copper sulfate.
What else???
Lay it on me. Biggest feeder gripes.
1) Nutritional value (uncertain)
2) Health (introduction of disease to the tank)
3) Possible exposure to copper sulfate.
What else???
Disease transfer is a major issue with live feeders. I've worked in a few lfs and observed that feeder bins were never fully drained and cleaned before the newest batch was entered. Ever since then, I've seen lfs feeder deliveries where the 500-1000 count bags were floating in bins/tanks containing dead feeders from older shipments. I've been able to net and purchase healthy looking feeders right from the shipping bags. But, I refuse to purchase any that come from the bins.
I am still stuck on the nutritional issue. We all know that live feeders out perform frozen or processed diets. There are a lot of reasons, but I haven't been able to quantify the nutritional content of a feeder goldfish yet. I would propose that the main culprit in any fatty buildup in aquarium fish is plain over feeding. It may be more prevalent with feeders than processed diets because of the appetite fish show for live food. If I find a good reference I'll cite it in the future.
Disease is another issue, like over feeding, that we are responsible to manage. Feeders, like all fish, are diseased. A feeder goldfish should never go directly into an aquarium, but rather held in a separate quarantine tank. I would recommend elevated salt levels in the .6 to .8% and prazi at a rate of 1gm per 100 gallons. This regiment eliminates protozoans, flukes and internal parasites. It's a seven day treatment for the prazi, so having two quarantine tanks would be a good idea. But with saltwater tanks, I can't think of a single freshwater disease, common to goldfish, that would survive in a saltwater tank. Freshwater feeders are an excellent diet for saltwater piscivores. Far better than frozen diets or commercial diets made from processed fish meal and grains. The proof is in the superior growth rates and increased appetites. Excessive overfeeding for sure should be avoided.
Disease is another issue, like over feeding, that we are responsible to manage. Feeders, like all fish, are diseased. A feeder goldfish should never go directly into an aquarium, but rather held in a separate quarantine tank. I would recommend elevated salt levels in the .6 to .8% and prazi at a rate of 1gm per 100 gallons. This regiment eliminates protozoans, flukes and internal parasites. It's a seven day treatment for the prazi, so having two quarantine tanks would be a good idea. But with saltwater tanks, I can't think of a single freshwater disease, common to goldfish, that would survive in a saltwater tank. Freshwater feeders are an excellent diet for saltwater piscivores. Far better than frozen diets or commercial diets made from processed fish meal and grains. The proof is in the superior growth rates and increased appetites. Excessive overfeeding for sure should be avoided.
Amen, to the overfeeding issue.
I feed out cage-raised bait minnows (they're readily available in my area.) I have 4 400gal minnow troughs that I use to Q and rotate my feeders. However, like the name states, I quarantine the new arrivals. I add zero meds since that is considered to be 'treating' instead of quarantining. IF I notice any abnormality, I'll treat the batch. If the pathogen poses too high of a risk, even with treatment, I destroy the batch, sterilize the trough, and feed from another batch. I'll never risk the lives in 125 tanks over a batch of live food.
I feed out cage-raised bait minnows (they're readily available in my area.) I have 4 400gal minnow troughs that I use to Q and rotate my feeders. However, like the name states, I quarantine the new arrivals. I add zero meds since that is considered to be 'treating' instead of quarantining. IF I notice any abnormality, I'll treat the batch. If the pathogen poses too high of a risk, even with treatment, I destroy the batch, sterilize the trough, and feed from another batch. I'll never risk the lives in 125 tanks over a batch of live food.
