Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!

sponger_2

Plecostomus
MFK Member
Aug 20, 2006
375
40
61
USA
SantaMonica;4554206; said:
Although almost no aquarist knows this (athough every marine biologist does), algae produces all the vitamins and amino acids in the ocean that corals need to grow. Yes these are the same vitamins and amino acids that reefers buy and dose to their tanks. How do you think the vitamins and amino acids got in the ocean in the first place? Algae also produces a carbon source to feed the nitrate-and-phosphate-reducing bacteria (in addition to the algae consuming nitrate and phosphate itself). Yes this is the same carbon that many aquarists buy and add to their tanks. In particular, algae produce:

Vitamins:

Vitamin A
Vitamin E
Vitamin B6
Beta Carotene
Riboflavin
Thiamine
Biotin
Ascorbate (breaks chloramines into chlorine+ammonia)
N5-Methyltetrahydrofolate
Other tetrahydrofolate polyglutamates
Oxidized folate monoglutamates
Nicotinate
Pantothenate


Amino Acids:

Alanine
Aspartic acid
Leucine
Valine
Tyrosine
Phenylalanine
Methionine
Aspartate
Glutamate
Serine
Proline


Carbohydrates (sugars):

Galactose
Glucose
Maltose
Xylose



Misc:

Glycolic Acid
Citric Acid (breaks chloramines into chlorine+ammonia)
Nucleic Acid derivatives
Polypeptides
Proteins
Enzymes
Lipids


Studies:

Production of Vitamin B-12, Thiamin, and Biotin by Phytoplankton. Journal of Phycology, Dec 1970:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1529-8817.1970.tb02406.x/abstract

Secretion Of Vitamins and Amino Acids Into The Environment By Ochromanas Danica. Journal of Phycology, Sept 1971 (Phycology is the study of algae):
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1529-8817.1971.tb01505.x/abstract

Qualitative Assay of Dissolved Amino Acids and Sugars Excreted by Chlamydomanas Reinhardtii (chlorophyceae) and Euglena Gracilis (Euglenophyceae), Jounrnal of Phycology, Dec 1978:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1529-8817.1978.tb02459.x/abstract
does the algae grow all these vitamins and amino acids in freshwater as well?
 

ryansmith83

Silver Tier VIP
MFK Member
May 2, 2008
4,084
1,857
1,079
41
Florida
I would love to try these out on my freshwater setups, particularly my discus setup, but I'm basically clueless when it comes to any kind of plumbing and I feel like I'm going to mess this up somehow. Are there still people who will build them that I can pay? I don't need the really fancy one like the black acrylic model on the website, just a simple bucket one would do.

Anything to cut down on all the water changes I do would be amazing.
 

Keith.B.Nimble

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Jun 30, 2009
8
0
0
San Marcos, TX
ryansmith83

How large is your tank? How often do you feed? How stocked is it? How often are you currently doing your water changes? What are your nitrate and phosphate readings?
 

ryansmith83

Silver Tier VIP
MFK Member
May 2, 2008
4,084
1,857
1,079
41
Florida
Keith.B.Nimble;4587815; said:
ryansmith83

How large is your tank? How often do you feed? How stocked is it? How often are you currently doing your water changes? What are your nitrate and phosphate readings?
Well, I have a lot of tanks of all sizes -- a 210 gallon SA cichlid community, a 150 gallon cichlid community, some 55 gallon grow-out tanks, fry tanks, breeder tanks, etc. But my problem is that there are nitrates and phosphates right out of my tap water, so I'm already off to a bad start when I change water.

I feed once a day in both of the big tanks, once a day with pairs, and usually 3 times a day with growouts and juveniles. I do a large (75%+) water change on both of the large tanks once a week and usually the growout tanks get large water changes every other day because they are overstocked.

I never had an algae problem at my old house but my water also didn't have phosphates from the tap there.
 

SantaMonica

Plecostomus
MFK Member
Oct 9, 2008
680
53
61
Santa Monica, CA, USA
Well it took a while to get time to take more pics, but here are the updated ones of my 100 gallon tank. The main thing to mention is that this tank is not for showing... it is for experimenting. Details are at the end of this post. There have been no waterchanges since August 2008. The only dosings are Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime in the top-off (for Cal and Alk), Seachem Reef Advantage mag, and Seachem Reef Advantage strontium. Feeding is 48 ml of skimmate... I mean... blended oysters, per day, 20 square inches of nori per day, and one silverside per week (for the eel). There are no mechanical filters, no chemical filters, and no sand. The only filters are the live rock (now 5 years old), and the algae in the scrubbers. The lighting is 2 X 150 watt halides, and one 96 watt actinic. The tank is 30 inches tall. Tests are Nitrate and Phosphate = 0 (Salifert), pH = 8.3 to 8.6, and the water is contantly filled with food particles:



High-Res: Click here








































































































































































Videos:

Whole Tank:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUl8FIQAxr0

Tank Right to Left:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58pOisX2vSs

Eel Eating:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDZtHf-xXCc

Flower Pot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMdllQSKU2c

Frag Tray:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtvF0ZbVX7w

Liquid Feeder:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOIx09XWYCo

Tube Anemone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7TnVm19td4



Here were the main experiments:

Iron Overdosing: I tried adding an iron supplement for many years, but never saw any affect. I always followed the instructions, such as Kent's Iron+Manganese "Add two teaspoons per 100 gal, per week". It had no visible effect. But after I started to read the literature about algae and iron, and after I realized that I now have much more algae in my system that the average tank does, I went out on a limb and poured in 8 ounces of Kent's. This is 24 times the recommended dosage for 100 gallons. But I reasoned that it's not the gallons that matter, it's the amount of algae. And it worked. The algae in the scrubber, that previously was yellow and hard (due to lack of iron), turned solid green and fluffy. Growth was much faster that week too.

So if more was better, much more should be much better. So I poured in a HALF GALLON of the Kent's. This is 225 times the recommended dosage, and over 9 times more than what I put in before. This was the biggest mistake I've made yet on this tank (coral-wise). Within a few hours, both of the bubble corals shrank up to nothing, and started letting pieces go. The next day, my 3 year old 5" litho was half gone. And by the end of the week about 30 of my 60 corals were completely wiped out. Iron was even beginning to deposit on the inside of the tubing that feeds the scrubbers. Well, I never did a waterchange, and things have gone back to normal, but now I know the power and the problems of adding iron. The more algae you have in a system, the more iron it can use; but don't add too much. How much is too much? The green soft corals (like a green bubble) seem to be affected first, so watch those.

Over Feeding: When my scrubber (only one unit at the time) was basically not filtering at all (before I knew about pumps clogging, and lights getting weaker), I increased feeding to 128 ml of skimmate... I mean blended oysters... per day, along with 5 frozen cubes per day, and one silverside per day. No waterchanges of course. So with this high level of import, and with almost no export, nuisance algae began to explode in the tank. I must say, the few SPS I had really grew at that time. The over feeding made up for the small 150 watt halides in a 30 inch tall tank.

Non Feeding: After realizing the non-flow in the scrubber (due to the clogged pump), and the worn out lights in the scrubber (should have been replaced 9 months earlier), I got the export back into operation. But to speed up the removal of the nuisance algae in the display, I stopped all feeding for 2 months. No blended oysters, no nori, no cubes, nothing. Only one silverside for the eel, but only every 2 weeks. Well, another big lesson learned: If corals have been growing based on high amounts of food in the water, they cannot survive on less. In other words, if the food in the water was always low, the corals would not have developed a need for food. But since they were fed large amounts of food for a while, they grew and needed those large amounts at all times. When the feeding was stopped, I lost about 4 corals in the first 4 weeks, and another 10 corals in the next 4 weeks.

So the pics you see are what's left after the iron, the over feeding, and the non-feeding. I don't recommend these tests for anyone else; I did them so that I would be able to recommend safe feeding and filtering methods for others.
 

gomlin

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Aug 23, 2010
44
0
0
Ohio
I think I'm gonna take the plunge and make one of these this week. I do have one question that I had and didn't see asked over the 100+ pages. You discussed the saltwater microorganisms that grow in the algae and feed the tank. What I want to know is if there are similar freshwater micros that grow on a freshwater system. I am wondering if I could use a deeper container for the filter and place freshly hatched fry in there to feed on the microbes. The first couple weeks is sometimes a pain to feed the smallest fry. Perhaps it would be a great place to grow out pleco or other algae eating fry as well? Obviously the fry would have to be protected from the outflow from the container. Has anyone looked into the freshwater microbes at all? Thanks for a great thread!

Jim
 
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store