thanks SM. I know that it's obviously beneficial for FW, its just not as clear cut, point blank as it is with SW, from what i'm gathering. The reduction of algae in outside ponds is interesting, and i've been waiting for the FW people to post updates. that's the part that intrigues me highly
Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!
- Thread starter SantaMonica
- Start date
Reminder Of The Day: Number Of Lights/Screens
One-light between two-screens: Makes better use of the light, but leaves the other sides of the screens unused (in the dark), thus wasting half your flow. The big advantage is cleaning: You can clean one screen, and leave the other in operation, which give you more consistent filtering.
Two-lights on one-screen: Makes better use of the screen (both sides are lit), but can waste light if not reflected properly. Advantages are (1) redundancy of the lights: If one goes out, you'll still have filtering until you can buy a replacement, and (2) higher performance for its size, since each side of the screen gets hit by light from both sides, especially right after cleaning when the algae is thin.
Best of both worlds: Multiple lights between two screens. Uses the most flow and power, but is always filtering, and will never go totally "dark" unexpectedly.
One-light between two-screens: Makes better use of the light, but leaves the other sides of the screens unused (in the dark), thus wasting half your flow. The big advantage is cleaning: You can clean one screen, and leave the other in operation, which give you more consistent filtering.
Two-lights on one-screen: Makes better use of the screen (both sides are lit), but can waste light if not reflected properly. Advantages are (1) redundancy of the lights: If one goes out, you'll still have filtering until you can buy a replacement, and (2) higher performance for its size, since each side of the screen gets hit by light from both sides, especially right after cleaning when the algae is thin.
Best of both worlds: Multiple lights between two screens. Uses the most flow and power, but is always filtering, and will never go totally "dark" unexpectedly.
I've been following this thread from the beginning and the findings are very hopeful for fw users. I have several questions. I read in a report by Walstad that nitrate removing aquatic plants more readily take up amonia because the nitrate needs to be first converted back into nitrite then amonia for energy consumption(by the plant). The nitrates present in the aquarium are a product of the BB. Is it possible that the algae must compete with the already established BB for available nutrients? Thus only when all available amonia is consumed will the algae begin to consume available nitrite then nitrate? So thus while the algae screen is trying to establish, couldn't a water change help to further reduce lingering nitrate until the algae is able to replace the BB as the amonia consumer. Some have reported cloudy water. Could this be a result of the BB colonies dying off as they are being replaced by the algae as nutrient consumers? Does anyone know who would consume the available nutrients first the algae or BB? Sory for the long post and if it goes in several tangents but I really would like to better understand some of these points.
All algae consume ammonia first, then nitrite, then nitrate. But with most tanks (esp SW), ammonia is already consumed by bacteria.
Waterchanges do remove everything that builds up in the water. They are just a pain.
I've not seen these reports. Who is having cloudy water?
Depends on size, amount of flow, and which one gets the water first. Would be very hard to test one against the other. That's why I say just remove the bb bit by bit, as you monitor your A, N and P. In practice, you want all your ammonia removal to be done by the algae, because the algae does not leave behine N like the bb do. So if you are planning a heavily stocked tank, especially where a large fish could die overnight, I'd use two (or three) screens instead of one, thereby doubling (or tripling) your screen area. This will leave no chance for ammonia or nutrients to be left in the water.
I was. I figured out the problem though, and I will be redesigning my sump to fix this problem. In my setup I've noticed that my screen sheds a lot of algal bio mass.SantaMonica;2521988; said:
The story: I set up the scrubber, and as soon as it began to get established, my water clouded up. I at first thought it was bacterial bloom because I got an ammonia spike. After this spike died down, I still had cloudy water. I then assumed it was just because I have messy fish, and I had removed my micron filter bags when I installed the scrubber. Sooo, I redesigned the scrubber a bit and put the filter bags back in. Sure enough the water cleared up in a couple of days, BUT, now my filter bags, that would previously last several weeks without cleaning, plug up daily.
When I remove my filter bags for cleaning, they are a deep green, almost black, and when I wash them, the rinse water is solid green. So, I don't know why the scrubber seems to shed so much algae into the filter bags, perhaps my flow rate down the screen is too high and it's washing off some of the deposits. The flow is consistently stronger at one end of my scrubber (construction flaw) and even though the flow gets divided equally into the filter bags after the scrubber, the filter bag closest to the high flow area of the screen plugs the fastest.
One other development I've noticed with my scrubber lately, is that the lighting on one side is closer than on the other. This used to cause a bald spot, but since the algea has really dug in some roots, this causes bright green hair algae to grow up to 2" a day on this side. I almost need to clean the thing twice a week. The other side still gets thick dark algae development, but not the rapid growing hair algae. I wonder if this hair algae gest swept off the screen and into the bags.
I'm going to build a new sump around the scrubber in the next couple of weeks, hoping to spread out the flow a bit better, slow it down and increase the screen area a bunch. I'll then put an easy to remove bonded filter pad between the scrubber and the micron bags. I also want to build the new scrubber for this reconfigured sump with LEDs.
I think what's happening is that you are not cleaning often enough, and so some algae is letting go. This happens if your screen is not large enough (1 square inch for each gallon). If you can't increase screen size easily now, just move the light a bit further away until the green in the filtersock stops.
I'd have to disagree. I clean the screen every couple of days lately. Most of the screen has heavy hair buildup on it, but where the flow is higher, nearest the filter sock that constantly plugs, the buildup is much less. I think the hair algae is just fragile enough that it tears loose when the flow is too high. Now, you could argue that if my screen was larger, the flow would be more spread out, AND the algae would have a larger area to spread out over, so it would solve the problem, but if the larger screen had a crappy uneven slot as well, with one spot flowing more than the rest, I think you'd still see the algae wash away under the high flow.SantaMonica;2522822; said:
I don't like "per gallon" rules. In reality it depends on how much you feed. I started out with a screen much larger than 1" per gallon, and it still was not large enough to accommodate the feeding schedule I had at the time. Now, my screen is about 1/2" an inch per gallon, and yes, it's too small so I have to clean it every other day, but it's doing a bang-up job aside from the algae plugging the filters beneath it.SantaMonica;2522822; said:
But... then I'd start growing less algae and my tank would begin to re-cycle. I'm redesigning the scrubber in the next few weeks to be much larger, easier to maintain, and so on. Will post pics when I have something.SantaMonica;2522822; said:
I had long green hair algae hanging off the bottom of my screen as well, I put some scrubbies and matting underneath to catch the hairs, worked fine...I just cleaned the scrubbies when I did the screen...cvermeulen;2525625; said:
Well a new technique is to use double screens (like pancakes)... give much more room for algae to hold. Also, rug canvas seems to grip much better than plastic. Maybe you can layer a rug canvas over your plastic.
