Well one of the requirements of the screen material I'm researching is that it be self-standing, and flexible. Thus it could be wrapped into a circle and it would stay that way, but it would also be removeable. If you use canvas to do this, you need to hang it from a circular pipe (like flexible electrical conduit plastic covering)
Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!
- Thread starter SantaMonica
- Start date
yeah its fresh water, and will be heavily stocked if successful.
thanks for the info, so rather than curved it could just be angled slightly? also i was wondering about the cleaning thing. i know you don't want the excess returning to the water but was just wondering how critical is it to remove ALL of it. i was thinking of cleaning it with a scraper that had a well, so as you scraped it would collect in it, maybe a sharpened ladel? and finally what about having something that would eat the algae slowly, snail or similiar.
i did read this whole thread but there is so much info(which is awesome) i couldn't really discern how crucial the cleaning was and why it had to be so thourough.
great thread btw, love learning about different types of advanced filtration to play with
thanks for the info, so rather than curved it could just be angled slightly? also i was wondering about the cleaning thing. i know you don't want the excess returning to the water but was just wondering how critical is it to remove ALL of it. i was thinking of cleaning it with a scraper that had a well, so as you scraped it would collect in it, maybe a sharpened ladel? and finally what about having something that would eat the algae slowly, snail or similiar.
i did read this whole thread but there is so much info(which is awesome) i couldn't really discern how crucial the cleaning was and why it had to be so thourough.
great thread btw, love learning about different types of advanced filtration to play withNot sure what you mean by "angled".
You must remove the screen to clean it in the sink with running FW. Do not clean at all while it's in the system.
You don't remove all algae; you leave a thin layer behind so it will grow back quickly.
Do not let anything eat the algae; that would just put nutrients back into the water.
You must remove the screen to clean it in the sink with running FW. Do not clean at all while it's in the system.
You don't remove all algae; you leave a thin layer behind so it will grow back quickly.
Do not let anything eat the algae; that would just put nutrients back into the water.
i just meant having it at maybe a 70 deg angle. so that the light wouldn't have to be hanging into the sump.
here's a really crappy paint to give you what i mean(don't anyone steal this idea now j/k
)
View attachment coolsump.bmp
so the dark green is the algae scrubbers. the light green and red are showing the idea behind angling or curving them vs having a vertical. making the scrubber adapt to the light.
so i'm not trying to argue just want to understand. why is it so neccesary to remove all, except some to repopulate, the algae? i understand not just scraping it into the water fine, but with other filtration if a few small pieces sneak past is it really bad? if anything i can easily make them removable, i was just thinking it would be cool to just have a sump that looked like a natural river area, and an algae scrubber would really add to the authentic look.
all and all i plan on using an SantaMonica style algae scrubber even if i hide it as it rocks
here's a really crappy paint to give you what i mean(don't anyone steal this idea now j/k
)View attachment coolsump.bmp
so the dark green is the algae scrubbers. the light green and red are showing the idea behind angling or curving them vs having a vertical. making the scrubber adapt to the light.
so i'm not trying to argue just want to understand. why is it so neccesary to remove all, except some to repopulate, the algae? i understand not just scraping it into the water fine, but with other filtration if a few small pieces sneak past is it really bad? if anything i can easily make them removable, i was just thinking it would be cool to just have a sump that looked like a natural river area, and an algae scrubber would really add to the authentic look.
all and all i plan on using an SantaMonica style algae scrubber even if i hide it as it rocks
Just make sure you can remove it. It's already been proven that if you don't remove it, the cleanings will color your water. Otherwise, looks interesting.
Taken from "It's In The Water", by Ron Shimek
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-02/rs/feature/index.php
[Aquarists have] the feeling that organisms somehow "use up," "change," or "consume" many of these [trace] chemicals, and in doing so, forever remove the chemicals from the reef aquarium system. This assumption is not completely false, some chemicals are "used up" and removed from the system, but most are not. Organisms are dynamic entities, and while some chemicals are temporarily sequestered away, such chemicals generally remain available in the system due to metabolic turnover. The only real exceptions to this as far as organisms are concerned are those chemicals, such as calcium, which get incorporated into an insoluble matrix.
Several trace elements are found in elevated concentrations in aquarium water [Table 2; Figure 2]. Some of these metals have extremely high concentrations relative to NSW; tin has already been mentioned as having concentrations over 200,000 times above normal, but Thallium, Titanium, Aluminum, Zinc, Cobalt, Antimony, and Copper all have concentrations of over 95 times normal.
Several of the trace metals varied in concert, particularly Cobalt, Tin, Zinc, Titanium, Copper and Vanadium, and lower but still positive correlations with Nickel and Aluminum are found. All of these metals are found at concentrations far above those of natural sea water. Some of these concentrations are almost unbelievably high. Tin has an average concentration in our systems of over 200,000 times greater than in natural sea water.
Increases in many of these same metals are correlated with the age of the tank. One explanation for that pattern would be that they may build up with the passage of time.
The older tanks also have more ammonia, nitrate/nitrite, phosphorus, iodine and copper than younger tanks.
Many of the trace element concentrations are lower than they are in freshly made up artificial sea water. Whether this indicates organism use, or abiotic chemical reactions, is unclear. Even though these levels are lower than in "fresh" artificial sea water, they are still very much higher than in natural sea water, and may still indicate a cause for concern.
[scrubbers remove metals; skimmers do not]
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-02/rs/feature/index.php
[Aquarists have] the feeling that organisms somehow "use up," "change," or "consume" many of these [trace] chemicals, and in doing so, forever remove the chemicals from the reef aquarium system. This assumption is not completely false, some chemicals are "used up" and removed from the system, but most are not. Organisms are dynamic entities, and while some chemicals are temporarily sequestered away, such chemicals generally remain available in the system due to metabolic turnover. The only real exceptions to this as far as organisms are concerned are those chemicals, such as calcium, which get incorporated into an insoluble matrix.
Several trace elements are found in elevated concentrations in aquarium water [Table 2; Figure 2]. Some of these metals have extremely high concentrations relative to NSW; tin has already been mentioned as having concentrations over 200,000 times above normal, but Thallium, Titanium, Aluminum, Zinc, Cobalt, Antimony, and Copper all have concentrations of over 95 times normal.
Several of the trace metals varied in concert, particularly Cobalt, Tin, Zinc, Titanium, Copper and Vanadium, and lower but still positive correlations with Nickel and Aluminum are found. All of these metals are found at concentrations far above those of natural sea water. Some of these concentrations are almost unbelievably high. Tin has an average concentration in our systems of over 200,000 times greater than in natural sea water.
Increases in many of these same metals are correlated with the age of the tank. One explanation for that pattern would be that they may build up with the passage of time.
The older tanks also have more ammonia, nitrate/nitrite, phosphorus, iodine and copper than younger tanks.
Many of the trace element concentrations are lower than they are in freshly made up artificial sea water. Whether this indicates organism use, or abiotic chemical reactions, is unclear. Even though these levels are lower than in "fresh" artificial sea water, they are still very much higher than in natural sea water, and may still indicate a cause for concern.
[scrubbers remove metals; skimmers do not]
do you have any text like this that explains what algae eats out of the water? i've read the whole thread and don't remember seeing one. i know it uses nitrogeneous wastes to build itself but why does it eat available heavy metals and to what concentrations will it temove them to?
Update: Where to point bulb
Always try to point the bulb at the middle of the screen, not the top. You don't want too much algae growing at the top by the pipe, because it will grow into the slot and slow down the water. If you have no choice and you have to point the light at the slot, you can attach a thin plastic strip to the pipe, such that it blocks the light from hitting the slot.
Always try to point the bulb at the middle of the screen, not the top. You don't want too much algae growing at the top by the pipe, because it will grow into the slot and slow down the water. If you have no choice and you have to point the light at the slot, you can attach a thin plastic strip to the pipe, such that it blocks the light from hitting the slot.
Update: Results of not cleaning
If you do not clean your screen in FW once a week (or at least put the whole screen in FW, and clean half of it), here is what happens:
1. Pods start growing and multipling in the bottom layers of the algae. They do this by eating more of the algae. They then get washed off into the water and get consumed.
2. The bottom layers of algae (attached to the screen) start getting shaded by the new algae that grows on top of it.
3. The bottom layers of algae (attached to the screen) start getting less flow, because they are being covered up by the new algae that grows on top of it.
4. The algae starts growing up into the slot in the pipe, causing less water to flow out.
5. The algae gets thicker and longer and heavier, and thus "lets go" from the screen easier.
The results of 1, 2, 3, and 4 above, is that the bottom layers (which you can't see because they are underneath) start dying and disolving back into the water. The result of #5 is that large pieces of algae on the top layers (that normally would be useful) also go into the water and die due to lack of light.
However, you don't see any of this. What you do see is that the growth seems to be great, but it gets to a certain point and stops. It seems to have "stopped growing". Also the nutrients start rising. So the tendancy of some folks is to leave it longer without cleaning it, so to give the algae "more time to grow". Big mistake.
What is happening is that the underlying layers are dying off so fast, that the algae is being removed from the bottom as fast as it is growing on the top. Kind of like building a second floor on top of a house, but then removing the first floor: You end up with a one-level house again. But then you take all the materials that you got from removing the first floor, and you use them to build a new second floor. But then you tear apart the first floor again, etc.
So what is happening is that the bottom layers (and the top layers that let go) are putting Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate back into the water, which gets used to grow new algae on the top layers again. So the scrubber can no longer filter your tank because it is so busy re-growing new layers to replace the old layers that died.
The easy solution to all of this is to just do your weekly cleaning in FW. And the solution to #5 (which really is the smallest problem) is to put a light-shield along the slot.
If you do not clean your screen in FW once a week (or at least put the whole screen in FW, and clean half of it), here is what happens:
1. Pods start growing and multipling in the bottom layers of the algae. They do this by eating more of the algae. They then get washed off into the water and get consumed.
2. The bottom layers of algae (attached to the screen) start getting shaded by the new algae that grows on top of it.
3. The bottom layers of algae (attached to the screen) start getting less flow, because they are being covered up by the new algae that grows on top of it.
4. The algae starts growing up into the slot in the pipe, causing less water to flow out.
5. The algae gets thicker and longer and heavier, and thus "lets go" from the screen easier.
The results of 1, 2, 3, and 4 above, is that the bottom layers (which you can't see because they are underneath) start dying and disolving back into the water. The result of #5 is that large pieces of algae on the top layers (that normally would be useful) also go into the water and die due to lack of light.
However, you don't see any of this. What you do see is that the growth seems to be great, but it gets to a certain point and stops. It seems to have "stopped growing". Also the nutrients start rising. So the tendancy of some folks is to leave it longer without cleaning it, so to give the algae "more time to grow". Big mistake.
What is happening is that the underlying layers are dying off so fast, that the algae is being removed from the bottom as fast as it is growing on the top. Kind of like building a second floor on top of a house, but then removing the first floor: You end up with a one-level house again. But then you take all the materials that you got from removing the first floor, and you use them to build a new second floor. But then you tear apart the first floor again, etc.
So what is happening is that the bottom layers (and the top layers that let go) are putting Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate back into the water, which gets used to grow new algae on the top layers again. So the scrubber can no longer filter your tank because it is so busy re-growing new layers to replace the old layers that died.
The easy solution to all of this is to just do your weekly cleaning in FW. And the solution to #5 (which really is the smallest problem) is to put a light-shield along the slot.
