Mixing Lake Tanganyika fish with non-african communities

[neutrino]

I'm completely with RD on this. It's not about the water. Domestic angels, discus, etc. can handle high 7s, even 8-ish pH. In fact, some discus see 7.8 pH in their native, wild habitat-- ask Heiko Bleher, who's written reams of discus books and articles and spent more time in their wild habitat than just about anyone. Captive bred Neolamps are often raised in neutral pH or low 7s. So there's more than enough overlap water-wise.

It's about temperament. I've had them-- and leluepi, brichardi and some other Neolamps can get downright nasty in the wrong tank, are occasionally too much even for Malawi peacocks. They absolutely vary and some are quite mild in the right tank, and anything's possible as a low % fluke, but no way would I keep them with angels, discus, etc.

Certain of the feistier gourami species? Maybe, really no idea.

 

[Akeno071]

It's about temperament. I've had them-- and leluepi, brichardi and some other Neolamps can get downright nasty in the wrong tank, are occasionally too much even for Malawi peacocks. They absolutely vary and some are quite mild in the right tank, and anything's possible as a low % fluke, but no way would I keep them with angels, discus, etc.

That's probably a wrap for this fish for now then.
I accidently brought a Gold Gourami and had a slight brown trouser moment when I realised that isn't what I thought it was and was actually a blue colour morph and the blues have a reputation for being aggressive. Luckily the dominant angelfish had curbed any chance of that appearing, for now.
Appears that leleupi is the issue more than the rest of stocking, if its as aggressive as its being made out here then I'm worried that the fire eel that'd share the tank would suffer from it as well.

Are there any similar but less aggressive species that might work for filling out the bottom column?

 

[deeda]

What are the tank dimensions and what fish do you currently stock in this tank?

 

[Akeno071]

What are the tank dimensions and what fish do you currently stock in this tank?

Its an 8x2x2 that im currently planning on.
The stock therefore isn't 100% solid but the stocking that this thread was based on would have been:
- 1 Fire Eel
- 2 Hoplos ( these would be moved over from my current tank
- A group of moonlight gouramis
- Leleupi on the bottom, dunno how many is recommended for a group or if its a 1 per tank thing
- Royal Pleco,
- African Butterfly Fish

was also considering instead of the gouramis some marbled/veiltail angels, or maybe a combo of german rams, discus and tetras
The stocking will seem all over the place, mostly because I'm terrible at stocking tanks and just want to stick my favourite fish together and secondly because this tank doest actually exist yet. This is basically me doing research in advance so I don't commit to mistakes down the line, like how leleupi with the suggested stocking seems to be.

 

[deeda]

Oh, I thought you were asking about what to put in your current tank now.

 

[neutrino]

Appears that leleupi is the issue more than the rest of stocking, if its as aggressive as its being made out here then I'm worried that the fire eel that'd share the tank would suffer from it as well.

Like I say, they can vary a lot and not all are especially aggressive-- some will keep to themselves and not bother anything-- but they can be. I saw a thread once where in a tankful of mbuna the leleupi was the psycho fish causing problems.

In an 8 ft tank you'd have a lot of directions you could go if something isn't already set in stone and there's a lot of combinations in which leleupi would (or should) fit right in without any issues, especially given a large tank. My comment above was based on angelfish and milder gourami species.

Tankmates can change behavior in the same fish. Had a Neolamp brichardi once, originally in a hap/peacock tank in which it was constantly causing trouble, despite the larger fish. Put him in a tank with a 11" Kigoma frontosa (and a few other fish I've forgotten now) and that straightened him right out, he kept to himself and his own little corner after that.

 

[Akeno071]

You seem to suggest that you can keep individuals of this species, I thought they preferred/were kept in groups?
How many would you recommend for leleupi if I did take the risk and try keeping them with the species mentioned?
Maybe try keeping a group and weeding out any particularly aggressive individuals til the calmer ones are left?

Truth be told, I mention Gouramis, Discus and Angelfish because these are the only fish of their type that I know, the mid-top column shoal etc . I'm terrible at the "finding appropriate fish to stock" thing and combined with my incredibly weird and annoying taste in fish makes it even harder so my scope is no doubt limited.

 

[neutrino]

Singles, pairs, or groups. I've kept singles or pairs and seen people keep several in a community. It's not that they're social and like or need to be in groups, they mostly ignore other fish or each other except whatever interaction any fish has with other fish in their proximity, at least that's what I've seen. It's more a matter of them being conspecifically aggressive so people who want a species tank or a Tanganyikan community may keep them in numbers for a similar reason to haps and peacocks, to spread aggression. Or they simply like the looks of them and keep a species tank, keep a few in a Tanganyikan community, etc. They're actually a nice fish as long as they're peaceful, in terms of color and general behavior.

In the wild they are, in fact, solitary, except when breeding, or so I've read in various sources. I've kept them but not as a feature fish, rather in communities with other fish. From what I've seen pairs don't especially spend time together except when interested in breeding. You can't really tell them apart, except as adults, so it's not like you can reliably pick out a pair of juvies, another reason some people get groups.

Don't know exactly what it is that makes them aggressive toward other fish when that happens, only know it can happen. Smallest tank I kept them in was a 75, so it wasn't a matter of too small a tank.

With an 8 ft. tank, ever considered a Tanganyikan community? There are some beautiful Tang species. Something like Zaire Blue gibberosa are beautiful and have become readily available, others like featherfins, Benthochromis, are harder to come by (and pricey) but can be really beautiful. There are also some interesting and nice looking Altolamprologus.

...Which brings to mind Cyprichromis. These are social, mid to upper level, and do like to be in groups, they live in schools in the wild. They come in a variety of species and colors, many quite beautiful. They're one of those freshwater fish that make visitors think you have a marine tank if they're not familiar with such colorful cichlids.

Just a thought and this is just to name a few. Lot of ways you could go with Tanganyikans, though some types-- like Tropheus-- are a specialist fish and comparatively difficult. Not all of them are good together, for example frontosa eat Cyprichromis in the wild, tropheus are way too aggressive for most other types, etc.

 

[Akeno071]

Which brings to mind Cyprichromis. These are social, mid to upper level, and do like to be in groups, they live in schools in the wild. They come in a variety of species and colors, many quite beautiful. They're one of those freshwater fish that make visitors think you have a marine tank if they're not familiar with such colorful cichlids.

Okay the Cyprichromis is amazing, I have never seen a fish like this before. I immediately want them. They look like they might work in the same position I was thinking of putting some giant danios or tetra as dither fish for the upper-column inhabitants.
Though it seems like it'd suffer the same issues of the previously mentioned Amazonian cichlids to the leleupian aggression?

The Benthochromis are quite nice too, thought I'm not sure where they would sit in terms of stocking the tank ( do they take the place of the angelfish/discus as the mid-column shoaler or am I just overcomplicating things now? ) and they both difficult to get and expensive so I think they might have to be a pass.

I personally have no clue what a Tanganyikan community is, though I think I can guess easily enough. My ideas of a "community aquarium" has always been the stereotypical Angelfish/discus centrepiece with neons or cardinals, usually a bristlenose pleco or a group of cories on the bottom with a misplaced singular silver shark or clown loach that was impulse brought. Red-tail sharks aren't too uncommon in these either. Do you think that a Tang community could be half-merged with the non-tangs This is the majority of my aquarium stocking knowledge tbh, I try to make frequent trips to my LFS to try and find more fish that might be of interest and broaden my scope and find more things that might fill out areas of the tank, otherwise I normally end up with too many fish in one part of the water column and the tank looks unbalanced. Seen Tropheus tanks on youtube and I don't particularly find them attractive to me, unlike the Oreochromis Tanganicae which was a beautiful fish to see albeit on video, I had assumed them too difficult to find though. I also have a feeling that the Oreochromis would devour all the other fish i'm looking at, being twice the size.


The bottom of the tank is mostly pre-decided as being a Fire Eel ( what I'm getting the tank for afterall! ), My pair of Hoplos from my current 40gallon. Then either a royal or scarlet pleco, depending on availability. Finally whether I decide to move my 3 pimelodus pictus or ruby shark across. The rest is then deciding the upper 2 layers based on remaining amount of tank left to stock.
I'm now more leaning towards trying a small group of leleupi with Discus and the Cyprichchromis as dithers as a baseline. I'm thinking that if I added the Leleupis last, into a tank with established fish etc. they might be less inclined towards potential aggression.

 

[The Morning]

I made the mistake of having discus with leleupi years ago. It did not work out. There was some aggression towards the discus but the real problem was the food. The leleupi was voracious when it came to feeding time. Very difficult to ensure discus were eating. That experiment only lasted a few days.

A nice tang setup is calvus which tend to stay near rocks but if you build rock piles up high they will venture higher. Couple them with the Cyprich and you will find they become fairly active swimmers. Some Caudopuntus for the bottom makes an interesting setup but unfortunately I wouldn’t add the leleupi. I had the one pictured below in that tank. Didn’t work.