I agree with Morning, discus are picky and slow eaters, leleupi the exact opposite.
I don’t know much about fire eels so this is where I get off. Good luck.
I don’t know much about fire eels so this is where I get off. Good luck.
Mixing Lake Tanganyika fish with non-african communities
- Thread starter Akeno071
- Start date
Well I appreciate the help and advice.
Most if not all of this is purely academic until the tank arrives anyway, and that in itself is a somewhat large If.
Until that happens I don't think that any type of stocking will be set in stone which makes compatibility difficult.
I suppose the most important thing from this is that leleupis are likely to be aggressive and any stocking with them should keep that in mind.
Also Cyprichromis is a fish. A pretty one at that. Do want.
Most if not all of this is purely academic until the tank arrives anyway, and that in itself is a somewhat large If.
Until that happens I don't think that any type of stocking will be set in stone which makes compatibility difficult.
I suppose the most important thing from this is that leleupis are likely to be aggressive and any stocking with them should keep that in mind.
Also Cyprichromis is a fish. A pretty one at that. Do want.
No experience with fire eels, either, nor hoplo catfish for that matter. If the hoplos are the given starting point, I'm not sure how helpful or valid non-SA suggestions might or might not be.
I've kept my share of discus, though. Wouldn't do them with cyps, which are too active, besides the same issue mentioned earlier with competition for food. I'm not as restrictive as some are regarding discus, I kept them in several compatible SA communities, but they're not a fish you can stick with just anything.
Also, leleupi accepting more neutral conditions than Lake Tanganyika is one thing, they've been around forever, many generations tank raised, etc. Cyps are a different, more expensive, more sensitive, I wouldn't keep them in less than upper 7s pH with some hardness and minerals. Even setting personal preferences or aesthetics aside, discus, angels, etc. with Tanganyikans is too much of a stretch.
I've kept my share of discus, though. Wouldn't do them with cyps, which are too active, besides the same issue mentioned earlier with competition for food. I'm not as restrictive as some are regarding discus, I kept them in several compatible SA communities, but they're not a fish you can stick with just anything.
Also, leleupi accepting more neutral conditions than Lake Tanganyika is one thing, they've been around forever, many generations tank raised, etc. Cyps are a different, more expensive, more sensitive, I wouldn't keep them in less than upper 7s pH with some hardness and minerals. Even setting personal preferences or aesthetics aside, discus, angels, etc. with Tanganyikans is too much of a stretch.
So Leleupi is more the exception than the norm regarding accepting wider tank conditions compared to other lake Tangs?
That's a shame, the Cyprichs are really nice, would love to have some but it sounds like they just don't match in parameters to the other fish I'm interested in keeping.
Would like to try Discus, but that's not set in stone. Discus are just the go-to fish I think of for medium-sized upper column schooling cichlids.
I really wouldn't worry about the Hoplos or Fire Eels, Hoplos share the similiarity of plecos in being hardy armored fish that can generally withstand most things. Fire Eels generally accept all water conditions and tend to ignore/get ignored by most tankmates, the size they get more often becomes the issue with too small tanks, though I've never seen one show any interest in anything beyond bloodworm for eating.
The main issue I'm having right now is finding the balance of wanting Leleupi but also needing fish that occupy the role Discus/Angelfish take while also being capable of withstanding the Leleupi if it decides it doest want to play good neighbours anymore.
That's a shame, the Cyprichs are really nice, would love to have some but it sounds like they just don't match in parameters to the other fish I'm interested in keeping.
Would like to try Discus, but that's not set in stone. Discus are just the go-to fish I think of for medium-sized upper column schooling cichlids.
I really wouldn't worry about the Hoplos or Fire Eels, Hoplos share the similiarity of plecos in being hardy armored fish that can generally withstand most things. Fire Eels generally accept all water conditions and tend to ignore/get ignored by most tankmates, the size they get more often becomes the issue with too small tanks, though I've never seen one show any interest in anything beyond bloodworm for eating.
The main issue I'm having right now is finding the balance of wanting Leleupi but also needing fish that occupy the role Discus/Angelfish take while also being capable of withstanding the Leleupi if it decides it doest want to play good neighbours anymore.
Tanganyikan cichlids are diverse-- temperament, biologically, and history in the hobby. Some are common, relatively inexpensive, have been captive bred for generations, and while you wouldn't keep them in low pH, soft water, they're otherwise tolerant of a range of conditions. Others are typically available only as imports or from specialty breeders breeding from wild parents, or maybe F1 parents in close to native conditions. You don't have to keep these at 9 pH-- for one thing 9 pH in the lake is at the surface, deeper gets lower, graduating to mid 8s-- so you could keep them around 8 pH-- maybe high 7s.
It's a difference something like domestic discus vs. wild or vs green and heckel discus-- which are fussier about water parameters, or greens and heckels vs. wild blue/brown discus-- whose wild habitat is more varied than other discus types. So when we said water wasn't the issue above, it was within the context of the fish you mentioned or other more commonly available, tank bred fish from the two regions. I wouldn't call leleupi an exception among some of the common Tanganyikans typically available at pet stores, but beyond these are others that don't fit this category-- in these cases I'd agree with Duane's comment on water conditions.
It's all about context, the same advice isn't true across the board. Tank raised leleupi or brichardi or typical lfs frontosa in water that would also work for domestic discus or angels? No problem. Heckel discus in the same water as B. tricoti? No way.
Beyond this-- and beyond aggression-- behavior and energy level is a factor. Some slower moving, slower eating species don't mix well with high energy species. They may not compete well for food or may be stressed or annoyed by higher energy or more boisterous fish.
It's a difference something like domestic discus vs. wild or vs green and heckel discus-- which are fussier about water parameters, or greens and heckels vs. wild blue/brown discus-- whose wild habitat is more varied than other discus types. So when we said water wasn't the issue above, it was within the context of the fish you mentioned or other more commonly available, tank bred fish from the two regions. I wouldn't call leleupi an exception among some of the common Tanganyikans typically available at pet stores, but beyond these are others that don't fit this category-- in these cases I'd agree with Duane's comment on water conditions.
It's all about context, the same advice isn't true across the board. Tank raised leleupi or brichardi or typical lfs frontosa in water that would also work for domestic discus or angels? No problem. Heckel discus in the same water as B. tricoti? No way.
Beyond this-- and beyond aggression-- behavior and energy level is a factor. Some slower moving, slower eating species don't mix well with high energy species. They may not compete well for food or may be stressed or annoyed by higher energy or more boisterous fish.
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Looking at what you're trying to accomplish, and assuming hoplos and fire eels aren't overly fussy over pH, it sounds like you could go in more than one direction within their range. It's just that the same tank wouldn't accommodate all fish within this range, whether according to water or temperament. You could do discus and compatible species or a number of Tanganyikans and compatible species. Discus and Tanganyikans not as much. 
The main issue I have is a very strong lack of general fish knowledge for stocking tanks..Looking at what you're trying to accomplish, and assuming hoplos and fire eels aren't overly fussy over pH, it sounds like you could go in more than one direction within their range. It's just that the same tank wouldn't accommodate all fish within this range, whether according to water or temperament. You could do discus and compatible species or a number of Tanganyikans and compatible species. Discus and Tanganyikans not as much.
I'm honestly entirely for a lake tang style community, its actually quite different to what I'm used too and the colours and fish are quite pretty. To be honest I've only really discovered these sorts of aquarium through very limiting googling of the leleupi and this thread.
The issues I run into with this is that I would personally like some sort of mid/top-column free swimming fish in the tank and all the fish I know like that are incompatible in either size (Oreochromis/Asian aros) or temperament ( Gouramis, Angels, Discus etc ) and from my experience if you don't balance out the bottom/top fish the tank starts to look emptier then it should and that's my main concern
I also have this same process of what this thread has been for any other fish that I may find that I want to try keeping down the line could possibly clash. Bala Sharks and rainbowfish are both fish that I can think of the top of my head.
On the other hand, if I decided to go with a more soft-water amazon based tank with Angelfish or Discus then I feel quite confident that the majority of things I'll see will be suitable in parameters as all the lfs' that I know stock fish with those parametres as a standard of sorts, probably because most are tank-raised and can therefore tolerate them or are simply from the similar regions. However theres then the reverse issue of the bottom-dwelling cichlids I know consist of leleupi, which are ofc incompitable.
Would this work as a baseline stocking for a more lake tang based setup?
1x Fire Eel
2x Hoplos
Neo. Leleupi
Cyprichromis Leptosoma
Then I'd just need something to occupy the middle of the tank that's about 5-10inches in length and compatible.
Other potential fish would probably be: African Butterfly Fish, , Royal/Scarlet Pleco, Giant Danios, Silver/Bala Sharks
1x Fire Eel
2x Hoplos
Neo. Leleupi
Cyprichromis Leptosoma
Then I'd just need something to occupy the middle of the tank that's about 5-10inches in length and compatible.
Other potential fish would probably be: African Butterfly Fish, , Royal/Scarlet Pleco, Giant Danios, Silver/Bala Sharks
Here's a more or less general description of Cyps, which touches on Paracyps, another interesting fish (don't let Malawi Cichlid page name confuse you, they're not a Malawi fish). Another here. If you watch some videos, Cyps are active, generally mid level or higher, open water fish. "Jumbo cyps" can be @ 5 inches.
A compatible group with some pretty and interesting species is Altolamprologus, which are more rock oriented.
Male Benthochromis can be spectacular fish, especially in breeding color, also open water fish, get some size to them, but Benthos aren't always available, also expensive, and not the easiest to keep. Don't really know about keeping cyps and benthos together, both typically peaceful, but can't recall seeing it much, same water level and seems like people do one or the other.
A larger fish I have a lot of experience with, certainly worth considering in a large tank, are Cyphotilapia gibberosa, mine are kapampa. Not a good mix with Cyps, though, which they hunt in the wild. But people often keep them with Altolamps and sometimes Neolamps if you give the Neolamps rocks and caves for cover.
This hardly exhausts the possibilities for Tanganyikan cichlids, these are just some I'm more familiar with. An interesting type is Gnathochromis, kind of a Tanganyikan version of a Geophagus.
On the SA side, a combination I like a lot are Heros species (severums), some of which are pretty showy (notatus, rotkeil, severus and some others) and eartheaters (Geophagus and some others). Geos can also be really nice-- see altifrons, sveni, winemilleri, mirabilis, taeniopareius, red head tapajos, to name a few. There's also some nice Satanoperca. Heros are mid to upper water, geos tend toward (not restricted to) the lower levels. There are some acara that would work in such a tank, some of them also showy. A difference between African and SA cichlids, though, is if you start with young fish, some of the SAs take longer to develop their showy colors.
Don't know how much more I can say on the subject, too many possibilities, lol. At some point you may need to just watch some videos and see what you want.
But I'd expect your list as a start would work as long as the hoplos and eel can handle water that makes the cyps comfortable.
A compatible group with some pretty and interesting species is Altolamprologus, which are more rock oriented.
Male Benthochromis can be spectacular fish, especially in breeding color, also open water fish, get some size to them, but Benthos aren't always available, also expensive, and not the easiest to keep. Don't really know about keeping cyps and benthos together, both typically peaceful, but can't recall seeing it much, same water level and seems like people do one or the other.
A larger fish I have a lot of experience with, certainly worth considering in a large tank, are Cyphotilapia gibberosa, mine are kapampa. Not a good mix with Cyps, though, which they hunt in the wild. But people often keep them with Altolamps and sometimes Neolamps if you give the Neolamps rocks and caves for cover.
This hardly exhausts the possibilities for Tanganyikan cichlids, these are just some I'm more familiar with. An interesting type is Gnathochromis, kind of a Tanganyikan version of a Geophagus.
On the SA side, a combination I like a lot are Heros species (severums), some of which are pretty showy (notatus, rotkeil, severus and some others) and eartheaters (Geophagus and some others). Geos can also be really nice-- see altifrons, sveni, winemilleri, mirabilis, taeniopareius, red head tapajos, to name a few. There's also some nice Satanoperca. Heros are mid to upper water, geos tend toward (not restricted to) the lower levels. There are some acara that would work in such a tank, some of them also showy. A difference between African and SA cichlids, though, is if you start with young fish, some of the SAs take longer to develop their showy colors.
Don't know how much more I can say on the subject, too many possibilities, lol. At some point you may need to just watch some videos and see what you want.
But I'd expect your list as a start would work as long as the hoplos and eel can handle water that makes the cyps comfortable.
...Tell you what, though. I might be partial, but I'm sitting here with my C. gibberosa kapampa tank, and for a big tank I'd at least take a look at some Zaire (Congo) blue gibberosa videos (moba, mikula, kapampa, kitumba, etc.).
Cyps are beauties, more variety in color, and a large school in a big tank would certainly make a nice display, so not trying to get you off them. But Congo coast gibberosa are also beauties, and their size would certainly fit the scale of an 8' tank. They're also generally robust fish in appropriate conditions.
Cyps are beauties, more variety in color, and a large school in a big tank would certainly make a nice display, so not trying to get you off them. But Congo coast gibberosa are also beauties, and their size would certainly fit the scale of an 8' tank. They're also generally robust fish in appropriate conditions.
