Multiple Oscars in Large Tank

[Gershom]

Not terrible, just ignorant. Happens every day in this hobby, the end result eventually leading to stressed, sick, and ultimately dead fish.
Lots of scenarios can be considered a success story, in the short timeframe that your experiment lasted. This was already mentioned previously, with Joey's internet success story. It wasn't.

RD, I think you might be misunderstanding me. That wasn’t a mea culpa, but a description of “fact”. I don’t mean a fact like oxygen has atomic number 8, but an honest description of a situation or occurrence. So it is possible to keep 4 oscars in 70 gallons. Still, that is much different from an opinion. If you told us about a similar attempt that resulted in multiple deaths, that’s also a fact, and worth reporting—ie, it doesn’t always work.

Your posts are generally heavy on data, but this one is just opinion (obviously a popular one). If I don’t keep my fish that crowded now, it’s because of my preference, But, since we are trading opinions, I think fish don’t care as much about space as we do. They care about food, clean water, opportunity for reproduction, and most of all, safety and security. (But ignore that, since it’s just opinion.)

 

[RD.]

The fact, was that your short term success story, was just that, short term. I have seen massive fish, kept in very small tanks. I suspect most people on this forum have seen same if they have been in this hobby any length of time. What one typically doesn’t see, is these same fish, living out long healthy lives in these types of conditions.

Your point was the same one that the OP attempted to make using the King of DIY as an example.
Show me the same set up, with healthy fish, several yrs on. Yet years of waiting for those folks to return with pics and info, and it never happens. That’s a fact. Lol

 

[Gershom]

I think you pointed out earlier that it was short term, and I agreed. But that doesn’t prove anything either way about long term. I don’t know the king of diy, but again, multiple failures are not proof that all attempts will fail.

Still, bowing to your experience, I admit you are likely correct (it just remains unproven).

My big objection, RD, is that so many of the recommendations are given categorically, without proof, but as if they are absolute, anyway. And I stand by my opinion that fish are probably not as focused on space requirements as we are. Why do you believe they even care?

 

[ken31cay]

Gershom, I will admit you put forward a couple of interesting thoughts, but then I've seen the same ideas from various you tubers. You are opinionated at the very least, and I was even beginning to think you came here with the sole purpose to argue. In any case, not sure if it has been a productive discussion. It doesn't change what I believe is best for fish keeping and certainly doesn't change my preferences.

 

[Gershom]

Ken, I am not trying to change your opinion; it may even be correct. But I am disappointed that you see me as opinionated, as my intention was to encourage people not to bludgeon others with their own opinions about tank size. It is definitely not my purpose to cause arguments or hard feelings.
Although I admit it is a hot-button issue for me, which explains my tone on this subject.

 

[RD.]

I don't recall stating that it couldn't be done. But after seeing the net results, more times than I can count, my opinion is based on more than simply an opinion. IME success stories are few and far between.

 

[ken31cay]

Ken, I am not trying to change your opinion; it may even be correct. But I am disappointed that you see me as opinionated, as my intention was to encourage people not to bludgeon others with their own opinions about tank size. It is definitely not my purpose to cause arguments or hard feelings.
Although I admit it is a hot-button issue for me, which explains my tone on this subject.

Thanks for explaining. This is not the place I come to argue or debate anything so I try to leave that to others. I get enough of that in my line of work. I come here to let loose a little, as part of my enjoyment of the hobby.

 

[Gershom]

I don't recall stating that it couldn't be done. But after seeing the net results, more times than I can count, my opinion is based on more than simply an opinion. IME success stories are few and far between.

Ok, I guess I misinterpreted this comment:
“Yet, years of waiting for those folks to return with pics and info, and it never happens.”

In fact, I bet if you put your mind to it, RD, you could make it happen!

 

[Gershom]

I was thinking about my assertion that past failures don’t prove it will never work, and realized that is a specious argument, because it is impossible to prove a negative.

And to be fair minded, I can agree that although short term crowding may work, long term it is highly impractical and less enjoyable.

 

[RD.]

When folks come asking for opinions and experience, I think it’s best that one provides info that they know offers the best chance at success. Not what might work, maybe, sometimes, under certain favourable circumstances.