Are you talking Suriname one? You had just said it ate something judging by the stomach? And you are offering live feeders only, right?
My Brachyplatystoma filamentosum (Disscussion)
- Thread starter GiantFishKeeper101
- Start date
Yup, the Suriname. Also yes he eats but that is it. One time. None after that. Unlike Peru that constantly eats when there's food. So now the Suriname are alone in the tank, we'll see how his doing in couple of days.
Located another Suriname, this time looks to be super spot variants. The owner willing to let it go cause of space issues (what do you expect from keeping a piraiba lol). See if he's willing to wait for me to purchase the fish early February, hope its still there. Kinda expensive, around 670usd, add on another 150usd you can get a Lince. Pricey pricey...
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Full Update on my Piraibas
The full spotted Suriname finally arrives, what a beauty. 15"
Normal Suriname 10"
The full spotted Suriname finally arrives, what a beauty. 15"
Normal Suriname 10"
There's new variants added:
Brachyplatystoma filamentosum spp. "Super white shovel head"
These as I know are Peru variants, fairly cheap, ranging from 150-250usd depending on season. As a juvenile it has same snout tip as Suriname but as they get bigger, it straighten but with slight curvature on the mid head, given "Shovel head".
Full white with silverish shines, flatter head & body, evenly distributed spots, nearly similar to B. capapretum.
Shovel head in care:
11"
Mistaken identity when I labelled him as Suriname variant but as I kept the Suriname variant, these are indeed not similar. Seen a few in the hobby but not common, it may also be difference in genders but doubt it.
Picture of the spots:
Picture from another keeper:
8"
11"
Video of same variant from 3rd keeper but with slight snout defect:
13" So white, the spots are barely visible
Brachyplatystoma filamentosum spp. "Super white shovel head"
These as I know are Peru variants, fairly cheap, ranging from 150-250usd depending on season. As a juvenile it has same snout tip as Suriname but as they get bigger, it straighten but with slight curvature on the mid head, given "Shovel head".
Full white with silverish shines, flatter head & body, evenly distributed spots, nearly similar to B. capapretum.
Shovel head in care:
11"
Mistaken identity when I labelled him as Suriname variant but as I kept the Suriname variant, these are indeed not similar. Seen a few in the hobby but not common, it may also be difference in genders but doubt it.
Picture of the spots:
Picture from another keeper:
8"
11"
Video of same variant from 3rd keeper but with slight snout defect:
13" So white, the spots are barely visible
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On page 4 post #36 https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/posts/8025862/, you are using this picture (in the above post third from the top) as a reference for Suriname piraiba at 8" and showing the differences you see with the Peru / Brazil piraiba.
Are you reneging now and saying this was a Peru piraiba, and moreover, are you alleging it is of some other kind you call the super white shovel head piraiba?
I thought you agreed that the base color cannot be used for ID reliably. The whiteness and the "spottiness" depend on many things, including fish' mood, bottom color, diet, age, etc.
Are you reneging now and saying this was a Peru piraiba, and moreover, are you alleging it is of some other kind you call the super white shovel head piraiba?
I thought you agreed that the base color cannot be used for ID reliably. The whiteness and the "spottiness" depend on many things, including fish' mood, bottom color, diet, age, etc.
thebiggerthebetter
Yes indeed I am. I never had any experience in Suriname piraiba before as I once concluded that any piraiba with signature curved snout would be a Suriname. But after the allegedly Suriname grows, he loses the curvy snout & the body becomes somewhat flatter. I'm actually baffled.
If it is the difference between genders, why there's no this type of piraiba before in the shipping batch. If its indeed wild caught, then there's should be male & female in the same batch. But mine with other siblings have the same characteristics in the same batch. Meaning there's a different variation & location caught. Have to ask the seller where the shipment comes from.
About the colour, I tested it in the pond, the tiles are dark base, the original Peru changed his colour from light to dark. I tested on the shovel head, he remains light coloured. Also in the video, all sides are black, still the piraiba maintain its light colour.
This is recent photo of the piraiba, looks flat bodied.
The first film shows the difference between the Peru & Shovel head at the same size. You can tell the difference right away.
Here's a photo of a Suriname snout tip. Also the head aren't as flat as I thought. They have the same head as the Peru but with square mouth. Yes, I know, the fish died. Have no idea why, didn't do postmortem, no bite marks what so ever. Other fish is fine even the big piraiba are also fine.
I've been given a 2nd chance, located another full spotted Suriname at 7-8". Will be arriving tomorrow, wanna test 1 more time.
This thread are more of my Piraiba journal rather than the actual ID. As the piraiba changes, so does the information. Will stop after the fish reached 2', usually by that size, they have permanent aesthetic.
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Thank you for the thorough explanation, as usual. I don't expect anything less of you and appreciate it.
Allow me to continue playing the opposition and the sceptic.
*********************
Yes indeed I am. I never had any experience in Suriname piraiba before as I once concluded that any piraiba with signature curved snout would be a Suriname. But after the allegedly Suriname grows, he loses the curvy snout & the body becomes somewhat flatter. I'm actually baffled.
*****The snout is quite frequently damaged in captivity. I don't think it can be used reliably as a trait. I am a bit lost in the intricacies of your analysis of (all?) the piraibas coming, staying, and going in your country
Teasing. Still, with so much info and back and forth conclusions, I must admit I am lost at the moment, short of dedicating a couple of hours sorting through your journal with no guaranteed success.
If it is the difference between genders, why there's no this type of piraiba before in the shipping batch. If its indeed wild caught, then there's should be male & female in the same batch. But mine with other siblings have the same characteristics in the same batch. Meaning there's a different variation & location caught. Have to ask the seller where the shipment comes from.
*****That's the most important thing in my mind. Knowing exactly where the fish was collected, at least the country if not the river. Not a guess. Not a likely. Not a maybe. Not an "I think" or "I believe". But for sure. This must be the basis and the cornerstone of all scientific and pseudoscientific analysis. IMHO. Otherwise, the conclusions will forever be haunted as questionable. No if's or but's about it. If the origin is unknown with certainty, there could be allowed to be a third group of specimen, but only as a supplemental material, not the knowledge base.
In your analyses, these specimen are mixed. Hence, I am lost what to consider reliable and what not and what is in between.
About the colour, I tested it in the pond, the tiles are dark base, the original Peru changed his colour from light to dark. I tested on the shovel head, he remains light coloured. Also in the video, all sides are black, still the piraiba maintain its light colour.
*****As I described IME, the two Peru piraiba from Mark Chen of Discus Origins, Ocala, Florida, USA, have always been different color in my hands except the first day. I think it simply may reflect the dominance factor.
The first film shows the difference between the Peru & Shovel head at the same size. You can tell the difference right away.
*****The only difference I see right away is the base color. Everything else seems the same.
Here's a photo of a Suriname snout tip. Also the head aren't as flat as I thought. They have the same head as the Peru but with square mouth.
*****That to me doesn't look natural but I'd think it had been damaged some time ago and healed up. As for the non-damaged mouth shape, I'd think the dorsal head shots would be required. Plus knowing the origin for sure.
Yes, I know, the fish died. Have no idea why, didn't do postmortem, no bite marks what so ever. Other fish is fine even the big piraiba are also fine.
*****Sorry to hear. Stress could be considered. The size disparity was large and the smaller piraiba was afraid (from the video) of the bigger one. I doubt though the stress killed it. Just a complicating factor.
I've been given a 2nd chance, located another full spotted Suriname at 7-8". Will be arriving tomorrow, wanna test 1 more time.
*****See above. Do you now the origin for 100% sure?
This thread are more of my Piraiba journal rather than the actual ID. As the piraiba changes, so does the information. Will stop after the fish reached 2', usually by that size, they have permanent aesthetic.
*****Understood. I am asking for my own understanding. Not trying to poke holes in your endeavour for me or others to see. You can see I usually have no problem acknowledging being confused, which in part or sometimes in entirety is my fault.
Allow me to continue playing the opposition and the sceptic.
*********************
Yes indeed I am. I never had any experience in Suriname piraiba before as I once concluded that any piraiba with signature curved snout would be a Suriname. But after the allegedly Suriname grows, he loses the curvy snout & the body becomes somewhat flatter. I'm actually baffled.
*****The snout is quite frequently damaged in captivity. I don't think it can be used reliably as a trait. I am a bit lost in the intricacies of your analysis of (all?) the piraibas coming, staying, and going in your country
Teasing. Still, with so much info and back and forth conclusions, I must admit I am lost at the moment, short of dedicating a couple of hours sorting through your journal with no guaranteed success.If it is the difference between genders, why there's no this type of piraiba before in the shipping batch. If its indeed wild caught, then there's should be male & female in the same batch. But mine with other siblings have the same characteristics in the same batch. Meaning there's a different variation & location caught. Have to ask the seller where the shipment comes from.
*****That's the most important thing in my mind. Knowing exactly where the fish was collected, at least the country if not the river. Not a guess. Not a likely. Not a maybe. Not an "I think" or "I believe". But for sure. This must be the basis and the cornerstone of all scientific and pseudoscientific analysis. IMHO. Otherwise, the conclusions will forever be haunted as questionable. No if's or but's about it. If the origin is unknown with certainty, there could be allowed to be a third group of specimen, but only as a supplemental material, not the knowledge base.
In your analyses, these specimen are mixed. Hence, I am lost what to consider reliable and what not and what is in between.
About the colour, I tested it in the pond, the tiles are dark base, the original Peru changed his colour from light to dark. I tested on the shovel head, he remains light coloured. Also in the video, all sides are black, still the piraiba maintain its light colour.
*****As I described IME, the two Peru piraiba from Mark Chen of Discus Origins, Ocala, Florida, USA, have always been different color in my hands except the first day. I think it simply may reflect the dominance factor.
The first film shows the difference between the Peru & Shovel head at the same size. You can tell the difference right away.
*****The only difference I see right away is the base color. Everything else seems the same.
Here's a photo of a Suriname snout tip. Also the head aren't as flat as I thought. They have the same head as the Peru but with square mouth.
*****That to me doesn't look natural but I'd think it had been damaged some time ago and healed up. As for the non-damaged mouth shape, I'd think the dorsal head shots would be required. Plus knowing the origin for sure.
Yes, I know, the fish died. Have no idea why, didn't do postmortem, no bite marks what so ever. Other fish is fine even the big piraiba are also fine.
*****Sorry to hear. Stress could be considered. The size disparity was large and the smaller piraiba was afraid (from the video) of the bigger one. I doubt though the stress killed it. Just a complicating factor.
I've been given a 2nd chance, located another full spotted Suriname at 7-8". Will be arriving tomorrow, wanna test 1 more time.
*****See above. Do you now the origin for 100% sure?
This thread are more of my Piraiba journal rather than the actual ID. As the piraiba changes, so does the information. Will stop after the fish reached 2', usually by that size, they have permanent aesthetic.
*****Understood. I am asking for my own understanding. Not trying to poke holes in your endeavour for me or others to see. You can see I usually have no problem acknowledging being confused, which in part or sometimes in entirety is my fault.
