Official Off Topic Discussion Thread #1

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QUOTE="skjl47, post: 7947546, member: 90622"]I can not look into the mind nor the heart of an individual any more than you can but the general social norms of a place can be known.[/QUOTE]

imabot said:
The middle east is not one big monolithic society like you implied.
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Hello; I do not know how many times a person needs to go to and be in a place to become an expert. Maybe a lot of trips or maybe just one if you stay long enough and pay attention. At any rate my comment was about knowing the general norms. My guess is the general norms can be known of without even being in the place, but I also bet it helps a whole lot.
By the way thanks for granting me the new skill to imply so much from such a small comment.

imabot said:
I am guessing you are referring to Sharia. I doubt that this is happening on a large scale or if it is, it would be struck down in the courts as illegal.
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Hello; Yes it likely was Sharia law they are trying to impose here in the USA. (See even you can know of a foreign societies general norms) It has been a while since hearing of the USA community where this was going on so I cannot say for sure how successful the attempt was. That said our courts have not been handing out rulings that I always see eye to eye with so I would not be so confident about them were I you.

[
 
skjl47 said:
QUOTE="skjl47, post: 7947546, member: 90622"]I can not look into the mind nor the heart of an individual any more than you can but the general social norms of a place can be known.
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Hello; I do not know how many times a person needs to go to and be in a place to become an expert. Maybe a lot of trips or maybe just one if you stay long enough and pay attention. At any rate my comment was about knowing the general norms. My guess is the general norms can be known of without even being in the place, but I also bet it helps a whole lot.
By the way thanks for granting me the new skill to imply so much from such a small comment.


Hello; Yes it likely was Sharia law they are trying to impose here in the USA. (See even you can know of a foreign societies general norms) It has been a while since hearing of the USA community where this was going on so I cannot say for sure how successful the attempt was. That said our courts have not been handing out rulings that I always see eye to eye with so I would not be so confident about them were I you.

[[/QUOTE]

I was talking about another quote that came right before the one you thought I was referring to.

skjl47 said:
Hello; The interesting part of your argument being that you are not willing to consider the experience of a person with actual experience with the actual society in question.
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I don't disagree that you can know of a foreign societies general norms, just that you can not generalize a whole region's (in this case the middle east) norms,traditions, etc. I would be interested to know what the name of the community you were referencing. I do not understand what you mean by rulings you don't agree with. We can not grant one religion rights not granted to other religions.
 
imabot said:
Fair enough on the sneaking in and vetted part.

If I go to Europe on a vacation a few times, am I now a expert on Europe and all their various social norms? The middle east is not one big monolithic society like you implied. There are several ethnic groups like the Kurds,Baluchis, Bedouins, Persians, Azeris, and so on who share differing values and social traditions just like the rest of the world.

I am guessing you are referring to Sharia. I doubt that this is happening on a large scale or if it is, it would be struck down in the courts as illegal.




Nope, no one can ban middle eastern people from immigrating because of their national origin. "Title VII is violated whenever citizenship discrimination has the "purpose or effect" of discriminating on the basis of national origin.[138] For example, a citizenship requirement would be unlawful if it is a "pretext" for national origin discrimination, or if it is part of a wider scheme of national origin discrimination.[139] Although Title VII applies regardless of immigration status or authorization to work, employers are prohibited by the immigration laws from hiring individuals who are not authorized to work.[140]"

Foreign policy and vetting potential immigrants are two whole different ball games. "The U.S. visa vetting system is one of the world’s toughest. Applicants’ biographic data, photographs, and fingerprints are collected and screened against a range of national security databases that contain millions of entries and include classified information from federal, state, local, and foreign governments. Applicants must provide voluminous documentation to verify their identities and backgrounds. Immigrant visa applicants – those applying to stay permanently in the U.S. – are generally subject to more scrutiny than temporary visa applicants, including a medical examination and other screenings."
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https://history.state.gov/milestones/1921-1936/immigration-act


Not so fast
 
jaws7777 said:
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1921-1936/immigration-act


Not so fast
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That act was from 96 years ago. Title VII of the civil rights act is violated whenever "citizenship discrimination has the "purpose or effect" of discriminating on the basis of national origin"
This is the footnote:
"
[138] 29 C.F.R. § 1606.5(a); Espinoza v. Farah Mfg. Co., 414 U.S. 86, 92 (1973) (stating that Title VII "prohibits discrimination on the basis of citizenship whenever it has the purpose or effect of discriminating on the basis of national origin"); see also Lixin Liu v. BASF Corp., 409 F. App'x 988, 991 (8th Cir. 2011) (per curiam) (citation omitted) (finding no Title VII violation where the plaintiff "conflate[d] national origin and alienage. His employment was terminated because of his immigration status, not his Chinese ancestry.").
 
imabot said:
That act was from 96 years ago. Title VII of the civil rights act is violated whenever "citizenship discrimination has the "purpose or effect" of discriminating on the basis of national origin"
This is the footnote:
"
[138] 29 C.F.R. § 1606.5(a); Espinoza v. Farah Mfg. Co., 414 U.S. 86, 92 (1973) (stating that Title VII "prohibits discrimination on the basis of citizenship whenever it has the purpose or effect of discriminating on the basis of national origin"); see also Lixin Liu v. BASF Corp., 409 F. App'x 988, 991 (8th Cir. 2011) (per curiam) (citation omitted) (finding no Title VII violation where the plaintiff "conflate[d] national origin and alienage. His employment was terminated because of his immigration status, not his Chinese ancestry.").
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I really don't care how old it is.

I don't have the time to sift threw links right now but I'm pretty sure the Patriot act and/or the Homeland security act will have an answer for your argument.

Besides theses links. I'd like you to address my earlier statement. What have never gotten "it" right in that region. So what makes you think we are going to get it right now ?
 
imabot said:
Who was he?
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"I'd like you to address my earlier statement. What have never gotten "it" right in that region. So what makes you think we are going to get it right now ?"

o_O
 
To answer your question, we already vet potential immigrants very well. We check their background with several databases. I'll requote "The U.S. visa vetting system is one of the world’s toughest. Applicants’ biographic data, photographs, and fingerprints are collected and screened against a range of national security databases that contain millions of entries and include classified information from federal, state, local, and foreign governments. Applicants must provide voluminous documentation to verify their identities and backgrounds. Immigrant visa applicants – those applying to stay permanently in the U.S. – are generally subject to more scrutiny than temporary visa applicants, including a medical examination and other screenings."
We also can not ban people from getting citizenship because of their national origin.
Espinoza v. Farah Mfg. Co., 414 U.S. 86, 92 (1973) (stating that Title VII[Civil Rights Act] "prohibits discrimination on the basis of citizenship whenever it has the purpose or effect of discriminating on the basis of national origin");
 
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