Rookie Mistake - Help?

[Heck]

Wow, a lot happened since I had been here. Very sorry to hear of the losses. I need to find time to read the posts carefully before I'd attempt to say something half meaningful. Just a few knee jerks:

What's an ich lesion? Ich starts out and remain looking pretty easy to ID to a naked eye. I associate lesions with a bacterial infection, which may occur secondary to ich, after ich has been observed for a while.

Is your pH stable? What is your KH carbonate hardness, which buffers the pH from sudden and big swings?

Has the start of trouble coincided not only with the pictus, but with the introduction of that unknown driftwood centerpiece?

In mammals, at least, lesion usually means visible disruption/injury to tissue - booboos. I guess I should have said spots. Or dots. I have been using the microscope just to... idk, grasping at straws, I guess.

I have not been monitoring pH or hardness. I misplaced my hot tub test strips (which is a problem for the horses, too, as it's close to Banksy's turn and I need to be checking her milk - new ones are on the way). I have plain old litmus paper in the barn, and I'll check pH with those, but I find the hot tub strips to be more accurate.

The trouble started with the pictus, I think - it was over 2 weeks between the addition of the driftwood and the onset of symptoms, and the pictus were flashing when they arrived - I just didn't recognize that as a sign of trouble.

I'm fairly sure that the driftwood isn't causing trouble, because I put a chunk of it in the Carrot Box on the same day, and the other fish (now up to 7 synodontis nigriventris, 4 hara jerdoni, 8 celestial pearl danios, and 2 scarlet badis) are all doing fine.

 

[Heck]

Back when I was younger in my HS/early college years I had a lot of free time to browser and study up on fish keeping and be very meticulous on how I raised my fish. Of course I don't remember the size of of every microorganism at the top of my head, especially the size of an ich theront, but I do know the general basics of microbiology and more specifically I recall the general information of beneficial and non-beneficial lifeforms. Thus, while I might not remember/know the specifics of what I'm seeing at the top of my head I remember the general tree of life for common freshwater microorganisms which allows me to narrow my online searches.

I'm unsure of what species this is in the 1st video but it looks to be some sort of euglenoid based on movement, shape, and color; maybe a species within the genus Euglena sp?

The 2nd video shows I believe another euglenoid and I believe a large green algae probably within the genus of Volvox sp.

The 3rd and 4th video (I believe a repeat) is hard to identify. It looks like a fluke but the tell-tale markers are not obvious. The shape is reminescent of a leech but there are no microscopic "leech" (in terms microscopic worms in how we view the word in the macro sense) AFAIK. All I can say for certain is that it's a type of microscopic worm but I would need better footage to make a more accurate guess.

Do note that while viewing the microworld is fun and frustrating it is very challenging to ID species 100% without easy access to DNA squencers. Even all my guesses are at best 70-90% as many organisms look and behave very similar (to an untrained eye) under most microscope. You need very expensive equipment and reagents/dyes to get the best quality videos and even then there are a vast number of look alike species. It's best to use it as a tool for confirmation outside of making microbology a hobby.

I am incredibly impressed with your knowledge and grateful for your help. I've always really enjoyed microscopy - really any tools that allow a deeper look like that. There was a time when I really wanted to be a radiologist - seeing inside things is fun. And I'm *this close* to pulling the trigger on buying an ultrasound.

But other than confirming that the Crime Fish actually did have ich, I don't think I'll get deep enough into it to do much with the microscope beyond having the occasional look and going "ew icky."

 

[Heck]

Still treating. Did like a 400% water change yesterday (OK more like 4 x 100% water changes).

This part is boring. I want to add fish

 

[Heck]

Is this pH 8.4? One pic with flash and one without.

 

[tlindsey]

Is this pH 8.4?

It's probably 8.0-8.1. I live in Ohio and my PH after testing looks the same color.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

I'd say this is pH is 8.3.

I read the thread. I think whatever pictus had on them, killed them and the mystus. Wipeouts are rare but possible. I can't vouch that the MG-based Super Ick Med couldn't kill the fish but it'd be a stretch for a commercial product if administered correctly per label. I know from experience formalin+MG meds are mild on these fish, and are hard only on few selected, sensitive fish.

T thiswasgone pictus and mystus are hardy fish, should not have any more problems with ich meds than your average hardy aquarium fish.

Since your other non-exposed tank has been doing well, it'd be hard to blame your water.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Perhaps it wasn't just ich, but Occam's razor principle mandates restrain in complex guesses. I think for now I'd pen it down as due to pathogen(s) on pictus, with an unlikely but possible assistance from the unfavorable MG-based med.

If you sanitized the troubled tank, I think we could turn this page and start over. Perhaps with test fish, something cheap and sensitive? IDK. Just a suggestion. I probably myself wouldn't bother with proving the tank after having done the amount of cleaning that you have done.

 

[Heck]

Perhaps it wasn't just ich, but Occam's razor principle mandates restrain in complex guesses. I think for now I'd pen it down as due to pathogen(s) on pictus, with an unlikely but possible assistance from the unfavorable MG-based med.

If you sanitized the troubled tank, I think we could turn this page and start over. Perhaps with test fish, something cheap and sensitive? IDK. Just a suggestion. I probably myself wouldn't bother with proving the tank after having done the amount of cleaning that you have done.

I'm glad to hear you say that, because uh.... the other day my LFS (who knows me as the crazy catfish lady) called and said they'd had someone drop off the World's Biggest Synodontis Eupterus and I should come buy him because they had nowhere to stick him.

He had come in with his tankmate, a retailed black shark, and I bought that too. They're not really huge, per se, just full grown - Stegosaurus (Eupterus) is maybe 10.5" and Megalodon is probably pushing 6".

So far so good. Mostly. Stegosaurus has a pale spot on his dorsal fin (came that way) and I don't know how concerned to be. Both fish are active, beg for food when they see me, and eat well.

Lordy I hope I don't kill more fish :/

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Glad to see the new tenants.

It's an open question who killed your fish. Not necessarily your fault but this is not a productive guessing. Productive and constructive would be to learn and move on. But all in all, all of us who keep fish will be responsible for their deaths sometimes directly, other times indirectly. If one cannot stomach these inevitable losses, this hobby would not be advisable for them.

As I had said before, I've lost thousands of fish over the last 20 years, most through my fault, and had to learn to grow skin. I am not saying at all like I am some kind of benchmark to go by, but I can used as a negative example, who still enjoys keeping, collecting and learning fish.

 

[Heck]

Glad to see the new tenants.

It's an open question who killed your fish. Not necessarily your fault but this is not a productive guessing. Productive and constructive would be to learn and move on. But all in all, all of us who keep fish will be responsible for their deaths sometimes directly, other times indirectly. If one cannot stomach these inevitable losses, this hobby would not be advisable for them.

As I had said before, I've lost thousands of fish over the last 20 years, most through my fault, and had to learn to grow skin. I am not saying at all like I am some kind of benchmark to go by, but I can used as a negative example, who still enjoys keeping, collecting and learning fish.

Dude. Thanks. I think I just needed to look for answers to try to do better next time, pout a little, and then be told to put on my big girl pants and move on.

And move on I have indeed - I picked up two sun catfish yesterday and have 3 mystus leucophasis on order. I set up my 55 gallon to be a quarantine tank (and to have somewhere to put fish if integration doesn't go well). I've read the sun cats can exceed 18", but usually don't - it seems like most home keepers report more like 9-10". Fingers crossed for that - even if my group coexists in relative peace, I don't think I can keep any fish who get bigger than a foot or so - my tank is 72x18x24 or so, and that 18" would limit turning around. And I'm just not ready to add a bigger tank - I have plenty of room, but the current setup is as much as I want to take on right now.

Things remain stable in my 29 gallon. I have read that CPDs are shy, but that has not been my experience - mine are little beggars that jostle for my attention when I approach in the hopes of getting fed - but they're boring. I guess this is the wrong forum to discuss nano fish, but they're cute. If the big catfish group works out in the 125, I'll probably move the nano fish to the 55 and have a big group of smalls, but probably no more CPDs. It turns out I just really like catfish