The Official Boxing Thread

[RayStruth]

I wouldn't say Marciano is the best heavyweight ever that's a pretty bold statement since the majority of his competition wasn't stellar, his biggest one is against Moore who was 38 or 39 and was a light heavy weight, and sure he beat Luis but he was about 2000 years old at the time and was just in there for a paycheck who is still a name I suppose. He wasn't ever considered in the top 5 even 10 years after he retired so I don't really think it's time that has downplayed his place he just isn't the #1 guy. And Ali would beat the brakes off Tyson

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[RayStruth]

Going to be horrible for the sport?...that kind of thing is nothing new in boxing.I don't see how people still get excited about Mayweather's big money sparring matches,as for Algieri fight maybe they took had it in China because of low site bids.

The fight is in China because their tax laws are are more lax than the US since Pacman isn't a citizen plus it's very close to the Phillipines and arum and top rank are trying to tap into the Chinese market since they signed the 3 time olympic medalist Zou Shiming

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[Dieselhybrid]

I wouldn't say Marciano is the best heavyweight ever that's a pretty bold statement since the majority of his competition wasn't stellar, his biggest one is against Moore who was 38 or 39 and was a light heavy weight, and sure he beat Luis but he was about 2000 years old at the time and was just in there for a paycheck who is still a name I suppose. He wasn't ever considered in the top 5 even 10 years after he retired so I don't really think it's time that has downplayed his place he just isn't the #1 guy. And Ali would beat the brakes off Tyson
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Aquanero spelled it out. It's not that Marciano didn't fight nobody, he made everyone look like nobody.

I don't care what anyone says. Tyson in his prime would've broke Ali's jaw just like Ken Norton did. Sleeper status. Hardest hitter in human history. Nobody views objectively because Tyson is a complete D bag that's easy to hate and Ali is mytholigized because of his cultural significance.

 

[RayStruth]

Aquanero spelled it out. It's not that Marciano didn't fight nobody, he made everyone look like nobody.

I don't care what anyone says. Tyson in his prime would've broke Ali's jaw just like Ken Norton did. Sleeper status. Hardest hitter in human history. Nobody views objectively because Tyson is a complete D bag that's easy to hate and Ali is mytholigized because of his cultural significance.

I'm of the opposite opinion in regards to tyson and ali, tyson is made out to be this world destroyer when all he ever did was crush cans and a few good fighters and then lose to every great fighter he ever fought, Holyfield X2 and Lennox Lewis and he never fought bowe who in my opinion would've beaten him as well. And whether or not rocky made people look bad doesn't matter as much as who he made look had, Charles and Jersey Joe traded wins back and forth with each other and are solid names and Joe Louis had no business in a ring by the time they fought and Moore was 38 and a light heavy weight and sure he fought on for the next 1000 years but it doesn't change the fact that Marciano's resume just isn't the best ever

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[krichardson]

Now that's interesting,we are all well aware of Tyson's ko's but I wonder how many jaws had he broken?

 

[RayStruth]

Now that's interesting,we are all well aware of Tyson's ko's but I wonder how many jaws had he broken?

I would say he probably has broken more noses than jaws since his go to combination was a left hook to the body to right uppercut

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[Dieselhybrid]

I'm of the opposite opinion in regards to tyson and ali, tyson is made out to be this world destroyer when all he ever did was crush cans and a few good fighters and then lose to every great fighter he ever fought, Holyfield X2 and Lennox Lewis and he never fought bowe who in my opinion would've beaten him as well. And whether or not rocky made people look bad doesn't matter as much as who he made look had, Charles and Jersey Joe traded wins back and forth with each other and are solid names and Joe Louis had no business in a ring by the time they fought and Moore was 38 and a light heavy weight and sure he fought on for the next 1000 years but it doesn't change the fact that Marciano's resume just isn't the best ever

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I know I'm in the minority here. In fact I would have laughed at myself years back for even considering such a comparison. But after watching and analyzing damn near every boxing fight I can dig up tape on, my beliefs change over time.

When I compare boxers who never could fight one another I compare them both in their prime. Usually a window of time during their career. This window needs to span long enough to make sure that they aren't a fluke. Neither of these fighters were flukes. So I'm not comparing Tyson later in his career who was outboxed and classed by Holyfield and Lewis. By this point his physical attributes he relied so heavily on had atrophied from age and drug use. I'm also not comparing Ali who got dominated and knocked out by Larry Holmes and pushed into retirement by Trevor Berbick.

These two in their prime I picture.

Tyson was pro at 18 won his first 19 fights by knockout, 15 in the first round. 26 of his first 28 wins by knockout. Tyson beat Trevor Berbick (same Berbick that beat Ali late in his career) to win the title 2nd round KO. He was the youngest heavyweight champ of all time and the first heavyweight to unify the titles. When he beat Spinks to unify the titles he KO'ed him in 91 seconds. He is the only person to knockout larry Holmes (same Holmes that knocked out Ali late in his career). At one point he was 35-0 with 32 wins by way of knockout.

That's a lot of crushed cans bro.

I watched this man in his window of time absolutely demolish everyone in a fashion I've never seen anyone come close to. Overwhelming physical domination. We all know his infamous downward spiral starting with buster Douglas loss and imprisonment but in his prime he was capable of beating anyone and was arguably the hardest hitter and one of the fastest punchers of all time.

If Ali couldn't handle Frazier's power or Ken Nortons, or even Spinks i think he loses to Tysons. Ali lost to all 3 of these guys in his prime window. Only fight Tyson lost in his prime window was Buster Douglas. Ali's early losses set up some great, historic rematches that we all remember but I don't see him surviving Tyson until later rounds and picking him apart. Maybe in their second or third fight he'd figure him out like he did with Norton and Frazier. He was lucky to get the decision against Norton in their second fight after his first knockout loss to him.

 

[SumoNinja]

shoot, heavyweight great lennox lewis ducked Tyson during his tear at the top

I think Tyson didn't lose to buster in his prime. I mean he was in his prime at the time, but for that particular fight he wasn't. he and probably 99.99% of the human race looked passed buster and he didn't train much and partied,..........and he paid dearly for it. if taken serious Tyson would be buster 10 out of 10 times imo

 

[RayStruth]

I know I'm in the minority here. In fact I would have laughed at myself years back for even considering such a comparison. But after watching and analyzing damn near every boxing fight I can dig up tape on, my beliefs change over time.

When I compare boxers who never could fight one another I compare them both in their prime. Usually a window of time during their career. This window needs to span long enough to make sure that they aren't a fluke. Neither of these fighters were flukes. So I'm not comparing Tyson later in his career who was outboxed and classed by Holyfield and Lewis. By this point his physical attributes he relied so heavily on had atrophied from age and drug use. I'm also not comparing Ali who got dominated and knocked out by Larry Holmes and pushed into retirement by Trevor Berbick.

These two in their prime I picture.

Tyson was pro at 18 won his first 19 fights by knockout, 15 in the first round. 26 of his first 28 wins by knockout. Tyson beat Trevor Berbick (same Berbick that beat Ali late in his career) to win the title 2nd round KO. He was the youngest heavyweight champ of all time and the first heavyweight to unify the titles. When he beat Spinks to unify the titles he KO'ed him in 91 seconds. He is the only person to knockout larry Holmes (same Holmes that knocked out Ali late in his career). At one point he was 35-0 with 32 wins by way of knockout.

That's a lot of crushed cans bro.

I watched this man in his window of time absolutely demolish everyone in a fashion I've never seen anyone come close to. Overwhelming physical domination. We all know his infamous downward spiral starting with buster Douglas loss and imprisonment but in his prime he was capable of beating anyone and was arguably the hardest hitter and one of the fastest punchers of all time.

If Ali couldn't handle Frazier's power or Ken Nortons, or even Spinks i think he loses to Tysons. Ali lost to all 3 of these guys in his prime window. Only fight Tyson lost in his prime window was Buster Douglas. Ali's early losses set up some great, historic rematches that we all remember but I don't see him surviving Tyson until later rounds and picking him apart. Maybe in their second or third fight he'd figure him out like he did with Norton and Frazier. He was lucky to get the decision against Norton in their second fight after his first knockout loss to him.

Ken Norton was a tall lanky guy who could go jab for jab with ali, tyson isn't going to be able to use that style to beat ali, if anything the Frazier loss probably would be more indicative of how he would lose to tyson. And those losses to Berbick (Ali was 39 and that was his last fight) and to Holmes (where ali was 38) aren't very indicative of how he would be able to handle power since he was pretty shop worn at that point in his career. Holmes was 38 when tyson beat him, and berbek never held another major belt after tyson and only had that WBC belt for a single fight since he lost his first defense to tyson so while he may have beat an old ali he isn't going into the hall of fame or considered a great heavyweight. I'll say this tyson could hit hard but his career as a whole is a massive what if. Cus died so early into his career and after that he stopped using the peekaboo like he did on his way up and mostly relied on his power. I would say technique wise his prime was early 20's and after that it was downhill. So maybe if Cus didn't die and he didn't go to jail he could've been better but as it stands he beat a few good guys who were on their way out and lost to the great guys from his generation whereas ali may have lost a few fights but he still beat great fighters from his generation. I liked watching tyson annihilate guys as much as anyone but his record isn't that great if you really look at who he fought

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[krichardson]

shoot, heavyweight great lennox lewis ducked Tyson during his tear at the top

I think Tyson didn't lose to buster in his prime. I mean he was in his prime at the time, but for that particular fight he wasn't. he and probably 99.99% of the human race looked passed buster and he didn't train much and partied,..........and he paid dearly for it. if taken serious Tyson would be buster 10 out of 10 times imo

....and didn't Tyson pretty much knock Douglass out in that fight but the ref messed up the count or something?