2 cups a week in a 300 gallon!? That's 32 tbsp per week!? At 50 gal/tbsp your treating for 1,600 gallons!!! Guess it shows that rid-x even when grossly overdosing is safe for fish. Lol!
The Use of Probiotics in Aquaculture
- Thread starter RD.
- Start date
Hi all - I am very grateful to all those who've researched, experimented and posted to share this information. I don't actually keep any "monster" fish or frankly any middling fish, but as a healthcare professional I've frequently needed to recommend probiotics to my human patients and have therefore been a little puzzled by the dismissive attitudes I've heard being expressed by fellow hobbyists re use of probiotics in home aquaria.
This thread clarifies things enormously since it allows me to understand both the point of view that dismisses massively over-priced and questionably effective aquarist targeted products, while explaining how to obtain good results by applying a little science-based know-how rather than marketing hype.
As my previous experience with dosing probiotics is with humans and other mammalian pets benefitting enormously after (very necessary but) prolonged antibiotic medication, I was researching how to apply the same broad principle to fish-keeping when I stumbled across this thread. While my first thought was to have something in the medicine cabinet to follow up antibiotic treatments, I'm now really excited to use these as part of my aquarium maintenance. I see it as a significant enhancement to re-creating a natural eco-system in miniature because surely many of these bacteria are present to opportunistically colonise in the wild whereas our sealed tanks and sealed canister filters actually prevent such "real world" balance?
In humans the same principle applies in that most folks with a good diet that includes fruits and veggies have no problem re-colonising the gut after antibiotic meds - the probiotic bacteria are everywhere - but someone who's living on junk and frozen food is almost inevitably going to get some problems.
Anyway I joined up to express my thanks and (having read the entire thread) ask again for a recommended product that's available in the UK at a reasonable price? For example I've seen some products that would do the job (I think) but they're going for £45 ($60) despite being septic tank/domestic products. Not the $10 deal I was hoping to find . . . I will continue to search of course, but if someone UK based has already found the solution?
Sorry - my first post here so can't post links to provide examples
cheers
This thread clarifies things enormously since it allows me to understand both the point of view that dismisses massively over-priced and questionably effective aquarist targeted products, while explaining how to obtain good results by applying a little science-based know-how rather than marketing hype.
As my previous experience with dosing probiotics is with humans and other mammalian pets benefitting enormously after (very necessary but) prolonged antibiotic medication, I was researching how to apply the same broad principle to fish-keeping when I stumbled across this thread. While my first thought was to have something in the medicine cabinet to follow up antibiotic treatments, I'm now really excited to use these as part of my aquarium maintenance. I see it as a significant enhancement to re-creating a natural eco-system in miniature because surely many of these bacteria are present to opportunistically colonise in the wild whereas our sealed tanks and sealed canister filters actually prevent such "real world" balance?
In humans the same principle applies in that most folks with a good diet that includes fruits and veggies have no problem re-colonising the gut after antibiotic meds - the probiotic bacteria are everywhere - but someone who's living on junk and frozen food is almost inevitably going to get some problems.
Anyway I joined up to express my thanks and (having read the entire thread) ask again for a recommended product that's available in the UK at a reasonable price? For example I've seen some products that would do the job (I think) but they're going for £45 ($60) despite being septic tank/domestic products. Not the $10 deal I was hoping to find . . . I will continue to search of course, but if someone UK based has already found the solution?
Sorry - my first post here so can't post links to provide examples
cheers
60$!? That is insanity! I think you should be able to find a similar product in your local hardware store in the plumbing aisles. I'm sure a store like Walmart or a supermarket would carry what you need also.
Think I may have managed to answer my own question. I spoke at some length today with a manager at Sea-Chem (N.B. not Seachem!) a UK based firm specialising in waste treatments and bio-based cleaning. I can't post links but Googling the company name should get you there.
They have a product called Bio-Boost (which was mentioned earlier in this thread as a UK option) and after an interesting discussion would seem to be not just similar but, as its imported from the USA, identical to many other products discussed here, being multiple bacterial species and strains without any perfumes etc. on a 'bran' base media.
Each tablet weighs 8g and treats a septic tank up to a volume of 2,500 litres which is 660 US gallons. The guy I talked to stressed that a septic tank was constantly being wrecked in terms of bacterial colonisation by people adding various household cleaners and bleach. Therefore in an aquarium environment without such harsh chemicals being added daily, there was no need to dose anything like that powerfully.
As my aquariums are relatively quite small I'm going to be getting my digital scale, pestle and mortar out, and raid my SO's pantyhose stocks when my Bio-Boost arrives tomorrow. It cost £20 inc delivery which is still expensive by US standards, but then it should represent several years supply for me.
I'll post back with my experiences
They have a product called Bio-Boost (which was mentioned earlier in this thread as a UK option) and after an interesting discussion would seem to be not just similar but, as its imported from the USA, identical to many other products discussed here, being multiple bacterial species and strains without any perfumes etc. on a 'bran' base media.
Each tablet weighs 8g and treats a septic tank up to a volume of 2,500 litres which is 660 US gallons. The guy I talked to stressed that a septic tank was constantly being wrecked in terms of bacterial colonisation by people adding various household cleaners and bleach. Therefore in an aquarium environment without such harsh chemicals being added daily, there was no need to dose anything like that powerfully.
As my aquariums are relatively quite small I'm going to be getting my digital scale, pestle and mortar out, and raid my SO's pantyhose stocks when my Bio-Boost arrives tomorrow. It cost £20 inc delivery which is still expensive by US standards, but then it should represent several years supply for me.
I'll post back with my experiences
OK the Bio-Boost arrived today and I'd appreciate some guidance on dosing as the pack comes as 12 x 8g tablets, of which a proportion, probably a large one, is the bran media. If it helps 8g is 0.28 ounces. Assuming that bacteria and bran are pretty close to dried yeast as mass - then 8g is about 8 x 0.3 teaspoons or near as dammit 3 teaspoons.
Clearly I'm not going to be able to use the "tablespoon of powder per 90 USG" rule here.
As I said before each tablet should treat 2,500 litres or 660 US Gallons of septic tank for one month. These are typically very harsh environments for bacteria as all kinds of anti-bacterial chemicals are added to them daily, unlike an aquarium. On that basis I wonder if it's reasonable to estimate that 8g should treat roughly three times the volume of aquarium water so it would be 1g per 1000 litres (264 USG). It makes sense in some ways but seems a tiny amount compared to the amounts that others have dosed of other products - though these were in powder form not a compressed tablet.
I appreciate this is going to be very much a trial and error process and that there's nothing alarming going to happen from an "over dose" - but unlike other products this quite pricey so I'm looking to use as little as will be effective.
Maybe, 8g for 4000 litres so a 200litre or 55USG tank would get about 500mg and smaller tanks about 250mg? Just playing with numbers here - its not going to be scientific and as I'm making up the numbers I might as well make up easy ones to weigh out and be consistent with.
Any advice very welcome!
Clearly I'm not going to be able to use the "tablespoon of powder per 90 USG" rule here.
As I said before each tablet should treat 2,500 litres or 660 US Gallons of septic tank for one month. These are typically very harsh environments for bacteria as all kinds of anti-bacterial chemicals are added to them daily, unlike an aquarium. On that basis I wonder if it's reasonable to estimate that 8g should treat roughly three times the volume of aquarium water so it would be 1g per 1000 litres (264 USG). It makes sense in some ways but seems a tiny amount compared to the amounts that others have dosed of other products - though these were in powder form not a compressed tablet.
I appreciate this is going to be very much a trial and error process and that there's nothing alarming going to happen from an "over dose" - but unlike other products this quite pricey so I'm looking to use as little as will be effective.
Maybe, 8g for 4000 litres so a 200litre or 55USG tank would get about 500mg and smaller tanks about 250mg? Just playing with numbers here - its not going to be scientific and as I'm making up the numbers I might as well make up easy ones to weigh out and be consistent with.
Any advice very welcome!
Hello; I do not have any useful comments on how to judge the size of the dose with the bio-boost, but let me throw this out.
I have used the Rid-X powder for the same purpose. When I first dosed the powder directly into a tank it created a mess. The fish also appeared to sample the stuff. No harm resulted. After that I began to put the powder into a jar of warm water and allowed it to sit around for a few hours. I then poured the stuff thru a coffee filter to trap the solids. I poured the liquid into my tanks and rinsed the solids into my toilet. I have posted about this method before but have not gotten any feedback as to the pros/cons of the method.
My thinking being along the lines that I want the bacteria for the tanks and that a lot of the bacteria should pass thru the filter.
I also am guessing that the dosing may not need to be figgured real close. If the bacteria find a suitable environment in a tank, then they may reproduce to some useful level?? If a bit too much is added it could cloud up the tank for a while and this should be able to be mitigated with a water change?? Again I am playing around with this myself.
I have used the Rid-X powder for the same purpose. When I first dosed the powder directly into a tank it created a mess. The fish also appeared to sample the stuff. No harm resulted. After that I began to put the powder into a jar of warm water and allowed it to sit around for a few hours. I then poured the stuff thru a coffee filter to trap the solids. I poured the liquid into my tanks and rinsed the solids into my toilet. I have posted about this method before but have not gotten any feedback as to the pros/cons of the method.
My thinking being along the lines that I want the bacteria for the tanks and that a lot of the bacteria should pass thru the filter.
I also am guessing that the dosing may not need to be figgured real close. If the bacteria find a suitable environment in a tank, then they may reproduce to some useful level?? If a bit too much is added it could cloud up the tank for a while and this should be able to be mitigated with a water change?? Again I am playing around with this myself.
Hi Jeff - thanks for the info on what's working for you. I had planned to put however much I weigh out to dose into some aquarium water for a while so it gets chance to activate. No idea if that's necessary but other folks have described doing it so it can't be too wrong!
Having thought about it some more since my previous post I think I'm probably over-complicating things with weighing minute quantities. I think I'll try just a quarter tablet in a litre/quart of water, let it sit for a while and then add varying quantities depending on tank size. See what happens.
I think my water is pretty clear, but there is a definite smell - I don't find it unpleasant, its a kind of earthy, rich smell, but it's one of the things I'm thinking might be a noticeable change.
Well I went ahead and put a quarter tablet in a litre of water for a few hours and then distributed it between my tanks. I read regarding another product call Bio-Enzym (made in Czech republic but sold in the UK) that this product should be allowed to "activate" for an hour before being tipped into a (septic) tank. It cautions not to leave it for much longer - presumably because once activated (re-hydrated?) the bacteria presumably need something to eat and won't find much in water column quality aquarium water compared to the substrate and filters.
Sadly though the manufacturer did respond to my email they managed to avoid answering any of my questions about their septic tank product and just told me to use their pond product, which is fine and irritating at the same time
I do notice some difference after using Bio-Boost, but its not very obvious at this stage. I think I'll use a bit more next dose - probably best to slightly OD at first and back off later once the bacterial colonies have established is my reasoning.
cheers all
Sadly though the manufacturer did respond to my email they managed to avoid answering any of my questions about their septic tank product and just told me to use their pond product, which is fine and irritating at the same time
I do notice some difference after using Bio-Boost, but its not very obvious at this stage. I think I'll use a bit more next dose - probably best to slightly OD at first and back off later once the bacterial colonies have established is my reasoning.
cheers all