Tiny Black Moor - Please help (pic)

[Miss Jinkx]

A big hello to everyone here, I am a new member! I found the forum while I was looking for some help with my little black moor "Tito".

I bought Tito 2 and a half months ago along with another fancy goldfish (fantail)
They are in a 90 liter tank with 2 sword tails and 4 neons.

All fish were happy and healthy and doing well, although the fantail was growing a little faster than Tito, when I woke up to find Tito upside down and grey.
I rescued him with a couple of weeks of cut up green pea, a shallow tank and lots of TLC.

Tito now has no problem with his buoyancy - but he has just stopped growing and looks incredibly thin.

My daughter has a big beautiful chubby black moor, and tito looks like a baby version of him, but with anorexia.

The fantail is now 8 times the size of Tito.

He hangs out mainly on the bottom of the tank. He does go to the surface occasionally and I do see him picking up sand from the bottom of the tank but he doesn't seem to keep the food in, he just spits it back out.

I have taken him out of the tank to check him for any visible parasites and I have found nothing on him. His scales and body look ok but his fins seem very clamped up near his body and not flared out at all.

Can anyone advise me on what the problem may be, and how to I might save my little guys life..

Thanks in advance..

(here is a pic of him with my finger to compare just how small he really is)

 

[Dwarf Puffers]

Swim bladders are a common problem on fancies. Also, fantails grow larger than fancies anyway, I believe.

 

[Kashta]

Miss Jinkx... hello. Lupin mentioned your post to me, so I thought I'd respond, as well. I truly hope it's still possible to save Tito. He just looks so incredibly small and weak, that I'm not sure if anything you do at this point will help him now.

From your description and the photo you've given us, he's clearly malnourished and in a very weak condition. Please steady yourself now to the fact that the little fish may not survive, despite your best efforts and all the advice we can muster. With that said, here is what I would do...

First, separate him from the others again and return him to that shallow tank you were using before. You know he was able to eat some shelled peas before now, so offer him those again just to find out if he's still willing or able to eat anything. If he'll eat some, that will be a great sign that there's still hope for improvement.

Sometimes when a fish has already given up on life, they will just stop eating.. huddle down with clamped fins like you have described.. and just wait to fade away. If Tito still has enough strength left and the will to fight to stay alive, you'll see him respond and try to eat a type of food he already knows and has eaten before.

Next step.... skip the normal goldfish flake/pellet foods we usually give them for the moment and buy a small package of frozen bloodworms. The idea behind this is to get something soft into him that's high in protein. Defrosted bloodworms should be easy enough for him to ingest even in this state and should be appealing enough to stimulate his appetite.

If he responds well to either the peas or the bloodworms, it's a very positive sign that he's still strong enough to survive and you'll have time to begin treatment for anything else that may be wrong. If you get no response from either attempt and he won't eat either the peas or bloodworms, I'm afraid there's nothing else I can think of that will save him. My recommendation in that case would be to humanely euthanize the fish at that point to minimize his suffering and shorten the time it takes for him to waste away on his own. Whichever way this goes, you should know fairly soon. Post again in this thread to let us know.

Now for some other ideas about this and possible causes.

It very well may be that Tito is a fish that would have been naturally culled simply because he never developed normally inside as he started to grow. That's nature's way sometimes and there's nothing we do can change this. You've already been looking for visible signs of parasites and other symptoms of injury, infection, or disease for an idea what else may be wrong. Unless you are able to find something tangible to go on, I would not medicate him at all. Even a mild application of meds right now might cause more harm than good, given the weakened condition he's already in.

When you post again, please give us some specific info about your tank setup and the water parameters. You have a mix of temperate/coldwater goldfish together with tropicals. The goldfish need much cooler water temp than the others and these need to be kept in separate tanks. The ideal water temperature for goldfish is between 70-73 degrees.

You mentioned seeing Tito take in food and spit it out. Normally, there is nothing wrong with that. Goldfish do this all the time. In this case, however, Tito may have something wrong which prevents him from eating... an impacted piece of gravel in his mouth, infection, or deformity of some kind.

Keep us posted on this and the very best of luck with him. I'll check back on this thread often for updates.

 

[Miss Jinkx]

Kashta, thank you so much for your time and your advice. I have done as you suggested and Tito is now in a 10 liter tank, filled to about 7 liters with a sponge filter, so that he isn't being thrown around by a current.
My partner has gone out to buy some frozen peas and tomorrow when the shops open I will go in search of some bloodworms.
He really does look so exhausted and starved, and as much as I am prepared that he wont survive I also have a glimmer of hope - considering how he came through the swim bladder issue. I think he is a fighter and I hope he doesn't prove me wrong.
Thanks again, I really appreciate it.
I will keep you up to date with how things are unfolding.

 

[Kashta]

That's wonderful to hear, Miss Jinkx. The smaller tank will give him some peace and quiet to keep the stress factor low and lets you monitor him better for food intake or other signs of problems.

The frozen bloodworms should be easy to find, either at a big name pet store or LFS. Other meaty frozen foods you might find there such as frozen daphnia would also be fine. Avoid anything that's dry or freeze-dried. Offer Tito as much food as he can eat within 15-20 minutes, 3 times a day, and siphon away anything left over to help keep the water clean. This is the usual feeding schedule breeders use when feeding goldfish fry after they're a month old. And the high-protein food they use for small baby fish helps them get strong and grow fast. After a few days once you see he's eating with some regularity, you could begin to alternate the worms/daphnia with soft veggies and with a high quality goldfish flake or pellet food that has been pre-moistened. Opt more toward slow sinking goldfish pellets rather than dry flakes that float at the surface so we don't trigger a recurrence of swim bladder problems. Good quality brand names include Omega One and Hikari. For veggies, good choices along with peas would be steamed zucchini or squash; dark greens such as romaine lettuce, spinach, and turnip greens; and even steamed brocolli, carrots, or green beans.

Not eating and a failure to thrive can be caused by a few things other than a physical obstruction or deformity: high stress, water quality problems, tankmate aggression, disease, or parasites. So there are a few possibilities for us yet to explore. Keep watching for any physical symptoms in Tito and with the other fish he was kept with before in case something develops.

Once you comfirm that Tito is eating normally, if he still fails to grow and gain weight there's a good chance that we're dealing with internal parasites, such as nematodes, cestodes, or flagellates. Treat with an anti-parasite food which contains metronidazole, praziquantel, and levamisole. Praziquantel and levamisole are also effective as preventive bath treatments for internal worms and for skin or gill flukes. Hexamita (a flagellate, Spironucleus vortens) is a common internal parasite that can be hard to diagnose. Weight loss, gill fluffing, and spitting out food are common signs. The best treatment for hexamita is metronidazole available in products such as Jungle Antiparasite Food or Metro-Med.

If treating for internal parasites does not help, there may be more serious issues like fish tuberculosis (mycobacteriosis) or other viruses. If that is the case, the fish should remain isolated or be euthanized. Mycobacteriosis and other viral diseases are highly contagious among fish living in the same tank and are incurable.

Good luck and keep us advised!

 

[Miss Jinkx]

Hi Kashta, morning has come and Tito made it through although he is looking even weaker, is moving less and I am noticing his fins are beginning to look a tiny bit ragged. I can also see what looks like a raised scale on his body. At this stage I am feeling really concerned and thinking that I should put this poor little creature out of his suffering but I am so saddened by the idea and I just dont know how to do it.
He tried to eat last night but again I see that he spits out the food as fast as it goes in.

 

[Kashta]

I am so terribly sorry, Miss Jinkx. I know it's a difficult decision to make even when you know there's no other choice.

I'll paste here the instructions to follow and what you need to do. This is most peaceful and humane method I've seen. Clove oil will completely anesthetize the fish so Tito will simply go to sleep. You can find clove oil at most drug stores and health food stores.

Following this excerpt is a link to the full article on Euthanasia if you'd like to read more, located at our sister site Aquaria Central.

My thoughts are with you and I'm deeply sorry for the loss of such a beloved pet.

~ kashta

Methods Commonly Approved:

I would like to preface this section simply by saying that many methods are in use and that most are controversial (as is the very notion of Euthanizing), but I have only tried to list those methods deem ‘acceptable’ by most and would be considered common practices. Certainly others exist…

Freezing – Correct Approach is to place a bowl of water into a freezer and let stand until a thin crust of ice has formed. The ice should be sufficiently formed to require one to break threw the surface. The goal is to ideally reach a Fahrenheit temperature of 29 degrees (or less). Once achieved, a fish may be placed in the bowl. Nearly instant, it is a very quick and efficient method by most accounts.

Alcohol – Is not an approved method on its own (See Clove Oil).

Clove Oil – Perhaps the most commonly employed method and very economical. This method is an anesthetic-like approach in that the Clove Oil is used first to place a fish under sleep. Ethanol-based alcohol is then utilized to euthanize the fish after the fish is unconscious.

- A Common Mistake is to mix both the clove and alcohol together, or to use a non-clear, non-grained, alcohol (colored alcohols, such as whiskeys, are not allowed to fully ferment and are thus not approved due to lack of ethanol concentrations).

- Alcohol used should be clear in nature and grain-based (commonly known as ethyl or ethanol) such as a Vodka. Although effective, vodka is still diluted, and the concentration of ethanol is deliberately reduced (25% alcohol of the total water volume is typically recommended).

- Note: Clove Oil is also lethal in 5-6x the recommended concentrations (ie. 50-60 drops per US Gallon). Also, please note; it is recommended that the fish is first placed under prior to spiking the concentrations to lethal doses.

Clove Method How-To: (Fish up to 3”)

1. Using a small clean container, filled with tank water, add approx. 1 drop of clove oil per 24oz.*, and shake vigorously. The clove oil must emulsify (will turn the water a milky white). *Remember the amount of water you use (needed for alcohol concentration below).

2. Add the fish, and check back in about 10-15 minutes. If the fish is still swimming occasionally, pre-mix a small amount of clove-oil and add this to the container. Wait again.

3. Add 20-25% volume of grain alcohol. For example, if the fish is in 8oz (240ml) of water, add 2oz (60ml) of vodka.

4. Check the fish carefully after 20 minutes. If there is no sign of gill movement after a minute, the fish has expired.

*(Fish over 3”+) Follow the above instruction, but increase the Clove Oil concentrations to 10 drops per US Gallon (or 1 drop per 13oz).
​

Source: http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1370852#post1370852

 

[Pyramid_Party]

Sounds like he has a parasite.

 

[Kashta]

Sounds like he has a parasite.

This is very likely from what has been described, if it's not a physical deformity Tito was born with.

Miss Jinkx.. The more recent symptoms you've described sound like secondary problems that result from the condition Tito was already in. The frayed edges on his fins suggest fin rot has set in and the pinecone effect in his scales is a clear sign of dropsy -- a symptom that the fish is in kidney failure and can no longer produce enough bodily fluid. Survival at this stage is very rare; most cases this advanced prove to be fatal because the kidney no longer functions.

 

[Miss Jinkx]

I have managed to do what I feel was the most humane thing for the poor little guy, and that was to put him out of his misery.
Thank you so much for taking the time, and having the concern for Tito, as small as he was. I don't know if it was because he was such a clumsy little thing, or simply because I had spent so much time trying to make him strong and healthy like the others that I developed such a soft spot for him. I really appreciate your understanding and all your advice.

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