We put away 1.5' mullet yesterday - 4 apurensis

thebiggerthebetter

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Thank you for that. I tend to think neither. It's either a bug in my water or the diet or both. These remain my front runner guesses.

The mullet have been collected alive and probably far away from any red tide regions. I thought someone had said above that the long and deep freezing kills the red tide toxicity agent but I need to refresh my memory.
 
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andyroo

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I lost my last clown knife (10yrs ago?) to something quick that didn't impact anything else; the only thing we could think of was a toops of freezer-burn on the frozen prawns, as target-fed to him more or less by hand. My cousin said he'd lost a cohort of loaches to same in a home-made food 20years before that, is why it came to mind/to blame.

PSP (paralytic shellfish poisoning) "red tide" in north Pacific clams is a planktonic beastie (a Dinoflagellate?), but not a bacteria. It's not an infection but an actual toxin bioaccumulating in the system, like Ciguatera. As I've understood it, the Fla outbreaks is similar but the poison is expressed into the water rather than held in the beastie's tissues, so it doesn't bioaccumulate but does soak-in. The PSP toxin itself is (as I remember it) quite durable, so even if you kill the beastie the toxin may persist, so your treatment needs to denature the protein - which long/deep freezing might do for this toxin, but even over-boiling BC clams in soups isn't advised (without testing). Considering where you are, the easy follow-up re treatment/denaturing might be to ring your GP/Hospital/Clinic or Fish&Wildlife office/officer.

In that, how much do you trust that "probably"?
Even at low-dose, the toxin might be sub-lethal to the mullet but accumulating in your catfish.
 
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thebiggerthebetter

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Great stuff I am completely clueless about and ignorant of, Andy! Thank you for the edifying post. I appreciate it and will pay it some mind and will plan to do some more reading. Maybe even the calling, you are suggesting, albeit I don't foresee it being "easy" unless a genius doctor or wildlife officer suddenly answers my ring, haha...

Freezer burn is possible but not likely as the frozen fish is packed properly in a plastic sack inside a carton box. But indeed, it might have stayed frozen for a year or longer by the time it was fed.

Red tide PSP is too possible because it is in the area indeed.

A sloppy (can't be proven or refuted kind) argument against both suggestions of yours is that

-- I feed more than just the mullet (there are several other fish species I feed that come from various geographies caught by commercial baitfish fishermen plus yet some others I catch myself) and
-- that no other of our resident consumers of the mullet and other large frozen bait fish I feed have been affected in a way that I could connect with the orange jello catfish illnesses and passing over the roughy 1 year period... and we have great many other fish that are fed roughy the same cuisine.

Yet, we have been suffering a long and drawn out series, 3-4 years long, of varying severity, of unknown lethal illnesses in a small portion of our small grow out fish that get fed an entirely different cuisine from different sources. The symptoms of those illnesses have been of the two kind - one where a fish becomes discombobulated and slowly perishes over a week or a month or even several months and the other that with Duanes suggestion was identified as possibly a columnaris strain of sorts, which came into our system later than the first, roughly 1 year ago, namely with the introduction of some fish that originated from the local wild.

If the jellos were affected, it'd be by the first bug, in my feeble mind anyway.

Their passing seemed consistent with something missing in their diet too not with a slow poisoning, albeit I believe I have never dealt (knowingly) with the latter. Perhaps these express themselves similarly.

Hence, I maintain [1] a bug or [2] the imbalanced diet of almost exclusively frozen marine fish... for the lack of more personal knowledge, which I appreciate you trying to expand my horizons, my friend :) Kudos for you!
 
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thebiggerthebetter

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sorry to here about this. was one of the ones that died the one I fed and petted? it changed my outlook on getting a cat.
Thank you. (Keep reading, haha...)

No. The OP / original quartet was long gone by your visit this summer. You have played with the replacement, who is doing well and growing, pretty close to 2' now.

As a precaution / remedy / learning from the losing of the quartet, I feed the new guy/gal smaller bait fish and also massivore at roughly 75% thawed fish 25% massivore ratio by weight.
 

thebiggerthebetter

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Our only remaining apurensis, 24" now, grabbing some fish at 2:30-3:15 minutes in 4500 gal:

 

thebiggerthebetter

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The apu has grown to about 26"-27" in the 4500 gal. I have seen our large piraiba test-taste it a few times over the months, no significant damage but I still decided to transfer it back into one of our 240 gal... and this is in the video. However, after 2-3 weeks the apu still wouldn't feed in the 240 gal, I reckon it's too small for it, so back into the 4500 gal it has gone again... An exercise in futility...

 

thebiggerthebetter

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Has the light spot on its back always been there
The original owner said it got that strange spot after a damage healed from fighting with another apurensis in his tank when it was small, like 6", which was about 5 years ago. Nothing seems to have changed with the spot, it just grew proportionally with the fish size, is all.

I have never seen anything like that on any other fish. It just looks like a hazy or whitish patch in / over otherwise normal looking skin.
 
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