Whats the deal with Xtreme fish food ??

RD.

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Hello Viktor, I understand better than most. The food manufacturer that I dealt with in the past, could not afford to feed his own food, to his own fish, until they began making the food on site, with their own equipment. Only then did it become financially feasible to feed all of his 120 ponds (approximately 30,000 gal. each), 1500 concrete vats (250gal.-500gal. each) and 1,000 40 gal. fry tanks.


Several yrs ago a member here, someone that lives in my part of the world, was asking about cost effective feed alternatives that would help them build their business. Below was my response.



Bill, this is what you have to deal with when living in the sticks. :)


Your "problem" if you want to call it that is that you have now reached a point where buying off the shelf tropical fish food is no longer a viable solution, and trout/salmon chow as linked to by a previous poster is simply too calorie rich for the fish that you are feeding, and will result in health issues in your fish. Feeding 50% protein and 20%+ crude fat to cichlids is NOT a good idea, even for short durations. Unfortunately finding a decent quality food geared towards warm water species, such as cichlids, isn't nearly as easy in Canada, as it is in the USA.

Check out Martin Mills.

http://www.martinmills.com/pond_tropical_fish.php

I have no idea as to the pricing on their tropical fish formulas, so don't hold your breath.

The key is buying in bulk, for less $$$$. Think commercial farm feed sold in 25-50lb bags, NOT food geared for pet stores.


If you decide to get an import license, the cost is $175.00 per year (at least it was in previous years) and be prepared to jump through a wad of Canadian red tape. That info can be found at the CFIA website. I have direct links to what is required by law in the following past discussion.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?306445-Canadian-Food-Inspection-Regs


If you decide to go that route, Randy Reed appears to have a decent looking product that on the surface certainly appears to be reasonably priced.

Granule size, up to 10mm. 20 kg (44 lb's) for $135.00 plus shipping.

http://www.reedmariculture.com/product_otohime_marine_diets.php

http://www.reedmariculture.com/pdf/product_otohime.pdf

Krill Meal, Fish Meal, Squid Meal, Wheat Flour, Potato Starch, Corn Starch, Fish Oil, Calcium Phosphate, Betaine, Soy Lecithin, Licorice Plant, Wheat Germ.

Made in Japan by Marubeni Nisshin Feed Co., Ltd.

They have another formula, but it doesn't appear to come in larger pellet sizes.


"top dressed" with Haematococcus (astaxanthin source), natural feed stimulants, a natural immune-stimulant, and more!

http://www.reedmariculture.com/product_tdo_chroma_boost.php


Krill Meal, Fish Meal, Squid Meal, Fish Oil, Haematococcus, Wheat Flour, Potato Starch, Corn Starch, Calcium Phosphate, Betaine, Soy Lecithin, Licorice Plant, Wheat Germ.

While the first formula is missing out on aquatic plant matter (algae meal/spirulina), both foods appear to have decent quality sources of protein (krill/fish/squid), and both formulas are relatively high in both protein & crude fat, so one could most certainly feed fairly sparingly. I would reckon that their vitamin/mineral levels are at industry minimums, so while not at the level of a food such as NLS, probably not way off the mark either. Most likely very similar to other bulk commercial foods.



The key is finding a food that is relatively inexpensive when purchased in bulk (25-50lb bags), the quality is decent (not just filled with corn/wheat/soybean) and ensuring that it is geared towards tropical warm water species, not cold water species such as trout/salmon that can typically handle much larger amounts of crude fat in their diet.


You know where to find me if you require more help. :)
 

Matteus

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Hello Viktor, I understand better than most. The food manufacturer that I dealt with in the past, could not afford to feed his own food, to his own fish, until they began making the food on site, with their own equipment. Only then did it become financially feasible to feed all of his 120 ponds (approximately 30,000 gal. each), 1500 concrete vats (250gal.-500gal. each) and 1,000 40 gal. fry tanks.


Several yrs ago a member here, someone that lives in my part of the world, was asking about cost effective feed alternatives that would help them build their business. Below was my response.
If that is who I think it is. To this day their fishroom in its ending days are still stocked with pails and pails of nls
 
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RD.

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Yes, that's who you think it is. I guess for them, and their biz, they thought that it was worth it. That or they were using and selling? Not sure, I haven't been out that way in years. Everyone has to decide on what type/formula/brand provides the most value for them, and their situation.
 
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Zcddrew

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I watched the video that I believe you posted on the fish farm. That was unbelievable. I really enjoyed watching it. Thank You for posting it up. The video shows a mix that they make up for their fish. They stated it was all good like krill , shrimp, spirulina, etc. I thought this was the same as what they were feeding their fish in this Xtreme fish food. Maybe I miss understood this video. I have to look at it again. Anyway I am always looking for good food for my fish. I like to change it up. Not feed the same all the time. Right now I am using Cobalt Aquatics Ultra Spirulina and North Fin Cichlid formula.
I posted the video.
 

Cardeater

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Cory finally explained his beef with NLS in the Livestream today. He still says he thinks it's a quality product but he explains what happened here. I guess it involved an interaction with Hillary (the NLS YouTube person) and then the owners of the company at a convention.


Time stamp 36 mins to about 39 minutes.

It just goes to show how personality conflicts can contribute to feelings on a product

RD, on the other hand, reported only good interactions with the NLS people.
 
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Cardeater

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When i researched foods on here, i think i read most of the threads you were involved in.

Your response that you reposted below is why i considered you an honest broker when it came to fish nutrition. For this particular bulk food use, you admit that a bulk feed might be more appropriate.

Other examples that your honest, in addition to being knowledgeable, are that you are willing to change you opinion if new evidence comes to light. Like i believe you initially didn't like Northfin, then you used it and said it was good quality and then that preservative (ethoy whatever, can't remember exact spelling) test came out and you posted about that saying you no longer supported it. Even though you had admitted to using the food, when the bad tests came out, you were willing to highlight the problem. Finally, when Northfin finally revamped their website and marketing to reflect the reality of their product, you pointed out that they finally had retracted their provenly false claims.

One final example is that everyone knows you are a big user of NLS, but you even say you think their gel product isn't cost effective (for the same reasons you criticized repashy gel food).

I know I'm not the only one who looks forward to your take on nutrition issues.

If anyone is searching for nutrition info, i suggest you do searches and look for RD's posts

Hello Viktor, I understand better than most. The food manufacturer that I dealt with in the past, could not afford to feed his own food, to his own fish, until they began making the food on site, with their own equipment. Only then did it become financially feasible to feed all of his 120 ponds (approximately 30,000 gal. each), 1500 concrete vats (250gal.-500gal. each) and 1,000 40 gal. fry tanks.


Several yrs ago a member here, someone that lives in my part of the world, was asking about cost effective feed alternatives that would help them build their business. Below was my response.
 

RD.

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Thanks C Cardeater , I appreciate that.

Just a couple of things that I wanted to clear up regarding Cory's comments in that vid. First off, he compared NLS & Xtreme, saying that their foods have always been similar, when in fact NLS hit the market 20 yrs or more before Rick Biro and his brother started producing food via Zeigler. So if what he said is true, it could only be due to Ricky attempted to copy Pablo's formulas. That's the only way that they could have ended up being similar. Which IMO, they are not, not by a long shot. Many have attempted to copy, many have failed. Just an interesting sidenote, 20+ years ago only one company used SA Krill as their main ingredient, and only one manufacturer added garlic to their food. Kinda seems common place now. Everybody doing it. lol

I'm afraid that in South Florida, there is a long trail of animosity between the various fish farmers. It started with quality of fish, trophies being won (or not) at the Florida Tropical Fish Farm Association. and ended with fish food. Looking in from the sidelines, I find it all kind of funny. Imagine a little Chinese guy wearing a snakeskin jacket coming along 30 yrs ago, in S. FL, and taking trophies such a Breeder of the Year, away from not only some of these very southern locals, but from some of the largest breeding operations in the US. at that time, such as Ekkwill. I bet that stung a bit. lol


I don't know Cory personally, but I have known the owner of New Life for many years. Pablo and I still talk from time to time, he phoned me few weeks back just to see if I was still alive & kicking. I can tell you this much, I think that Cory left a LARGE portion of the story out, that being, he decided to undersell a manufacturers product, because for whatever reason, so Cory says .... he was having difficulty selling it. Whether that is true or not, who knows. Perhaps he just got a sweeter deal, via Xtreme. Hmmmmmm. That's all good and well, but the MAP that he spoke of is minimum advertised price - and what many consumers don't know is that in the USA there are laws that protect manufacturers from having retail vendors blow their products out at below MAP value.

This is according to the FTC. (Federal Trade Commission) I remember when this first went before the Supreme Court years ago, I believe that it involved a purse manufacturer, and the US Supreme Court ruled that a manufacturer has the right to protect their name, and the value of their products, by setting a MAP for distributors and retail vendors. I agreed with the decision then, and as a consumer I still do now, otherwise a brand name could be destroyed in fairly short order if someone decided to get into a price war with other vendors. Sounds like Cory went off the reservation, which no doubt pissed the folks off at New Life, which would have been the end of Cory ever doing business with them again, period. The rest of it just sounds like Hillary, someone new to the job at that time, and new to NLS, going off on Cory. Pablo would never say stupid crap like that, even behind closed doors. This is a fish farmer that holds a PhD, not some dummy that talks smack. Whatever, Cory .....

Just to add to this, when I was a distributor in Canada, I refused to sell to vendors that did not have a brick & mortar establishment. Online vendors that didn't have an actual storefront, did not get product from me. I pissed a number of people off over that rule, but at the end of the day it was my business, and my rules, and I ran it as I chose. Too many online people were popping up at that time, and all of them were attempting to make a name for themselves by undercutting everyone else. Many are no longer in business because they weren't looking at their long game. What I did was the same as Tetra telling Cory that he couldn't sell their product online. If he did, guess what Tetra's reaction would be? Well, that's exactly what Cory did to New Life when he decided to lowball their products, and their reaction was to do exactly what Tetra (as well as most manufacturers) would do. There is no beef here, Cory got cut off for thinking that he was above the law.

Took me a while to find this, a little throw back (Friday). Sorry Pablo! lol

1572008606186.png
 
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RD.

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Cory finally explained his beef with NLS in the Livestream today. He still says he thinks it's a quality product but he explains what happened here. I guess it involved an interaction with Hillary (the NLS YouTube person) and then the owners of the company at a convention.


Time stamp 36 mins to about 39 minutes.

It just goes to show how personality conflicts can contribute to feelings on a product

RD, on the other hand, reported only good interactions with the NLS people.

I spoke to the owner of New Life this morning. From what I was told by Pablo, which seems to line up with what Cory said on his vid linked to above, things played out pretty much exactly as I suspected.

The Interzoo show that Cory mentioned, where he was apparently "shouted" at by whomever at New Life lol, was approx 1 1/2 yrs ago, at which time Cory was already, or right after began selling the New Life product line, which he continued to do until a number of months back when after hearing about his clearance prices on some of their formulas, New Life sent him their form letter/email regarding pricing, and their MAP. I guess Cory felt that he was special, and perhaps as an internet celebrity should have received special consideration, but the contents of that letter/email is pretty straightforward. Cory's big issue with New Life was apparently never over the Interzoo brouhaha, as he clearly kept selling the product line. He only stopped selling it, after receiving the cease & desist letter from New Life.

Pablo is old school, he has 20 yrs on me, and I'm 60+, so consider the fact that he was in the tropical fish biz before most youtubers like Cory had crapped in their first pair of diapers. lol This is a guy who turned down Walmart because they wanted everything for next to nothing wholesale, so they could turn around and undercut the rest of the free world with their lowball retail price structure. Pablo said no-thanks. No one says NO to Walmart. He did. He also told one of the largest distributers on the East Coast that if they didn't stop selling to all the fly by night online bottom feeders (just like I did in Canada) that they were going to have some problems. No one says that to this distribution franchise. He did. Now they no longer are distributors of his products. Over the years he has been approached by some serious players that wanted to private label his food under their brand name (common in the trade) he said no to them too - and to this day he still sells to them, his food, with his labels. Perhaps Cory et al would understand, or feel differently, if it was their product line, with their company branding, and their 20+ years of hard work that built the brand name to where it is today.

Pablo is no saint, but neither am I, whatever, IMHO his products, and his passion in this industry, has played a very large role in this part of the hobby for the past 20+ yrs. Even at his current age he is still extremely passionate about this part of the hobby, and truly believes in his heart that his food is hands down superior to all others. When he gets going about fish nutrition it's difficult for me to get off the phone, even after 1-2 hour conversations! lol But there's also a reason why every company that has come out during the past 20 yrs , has compared their products to New Life's.
 
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thebiggerthebetter

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Cool convo. Thank you all.

A small elaboration on my practice. Yes, I feed a "cheap and angry", as we'd say in Russian, product. To mitigate a bit, I presoak all thawed fish in Vitachem and I feed Hikari Cichlid Gold and Hikari Cichlid Excel pellets or NLS large fish formula at the rate of 10% to 90% of Ziegler's, by weight. FWIW.
 

RD.

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That is good additional info, thanks for adding that Viktor! I can't even imagine what your monthly food bill is. Yikes!
 
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