What's up with all these feeding mice threads?

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Its all your opinion on what cruelty is. I often feed my fish when I have guests over, it gets them moving about and allows all of them to be seen. Being a fisherman, I thought nothing of dropping a worm in the tank but I made my guest cry at my cruelty. Even still, I somehow see it as somewhat cruel to watch a worm get ripped apart by my smaller fish. I still see it as a natural prey item and fact of life, even if I am the one controlling it. I keep fish because I love fish and their natural behavior. I try to make my tanks as natural as possible even if they are still in a "small glass box." A predator hunting their prey is part of their natural behavior and I enjoy occassional live feeders. But I enjoy watching my predator hunt, not the sick demise of the prey. While it is one and the same, there is a thin line difference. I know, contradiction.

On the topic of mice as feeders. Feeder fish and the like are in their element, the water. Feeder mice however, a struggling to get away AND get out. Its like a person having a fear of drowning while knowing the shark is after you too. It does seem a little extra cruel.
While it might not be a staple or a healthy "treat", mammals do fall in the water and fish are opportunistic. An occassional mouse is not a terrible item to feed to a fish. When my snakes refused their thawed meals, I would sometimes offer it to my large catfish. While I know it wasnt the healthiest thing, the large meaty meal did create a large growth spurt that did not happen with a healthy pellet staple. the difference between normal feedings and only eating a mouse was a growth difference of over a 1/4". That pattern was repeated any time a mouse was eaten. On the other hand, what wasnt digested(fur, bones etc) was incredibly messy and terribly rough on filtration. From a dietary standpoint, a rare offering of such a meal can be good for growth. Like how a Big mac is great for growing out your thighs ;)

Waay more PC then me ;)
 
This is what comes out of the "River Monsters" generation of fishkeepers. They're the same people who buy Snakes and Turtles and baby Crocodilians to use as a garbage disposal for small animals.

As fishkeepers, and therefore animal keepers, I believe we have a responsibility to act fairly towards all living animals, pets or otherwise. People who work with animals, privately or professionally, bridge the gap between the world of people and the world of animals, and therefore, should act responsibly. I'm not condemning all live feeding, or hunting/fishing for that matter. Live feeding is necessary or simply highly beneficial at times. But it shouldnt be done simply to put on a show. It's abuse of animals, and abuse of the privlidge of keeping animals.

KEEPING A FISH IN A TANK IS ABUSE NO MATTER HOW MUCH U TELL UR SELF HE IS HAPPY THE FISH DOESNT WANT TO BE THERE. PUT YOUR FAV FISH IN THE RIVER AND SEE IF HE SWIMS BACK TO YOU. PEOPLE ARE BECOMING CRAZY EVERYBODY WANTS TO FEEL THEY ARE DOING THINGS BETER THAN OTHERS. IF U DONT AGREE DONT DO IT BUT YOU ARE NO BETTER. ITS LIKE THE ZOO TALKING ABOUT THE CIRCUS. ALL THE ANIMALS WANT TO BE FREE AND LEFT ALONE BY MAN.
 
ALSO people have been keeping reptiles and feeding small animals to thier pets before animal planet or u were around. The people who kill me are the people like you who strive to be accepted and spend thier whole lives trying to say the right things.
 
They need to throw frog in there instead. Healthier and just as fun to watch.

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So you think it's proper husbandry to toss a disease ridden animal into an enclosure.... so you're not a hypocrite? white domestic mice are not found in nature... the disease they carry and can xfer.. the foods they eat... no guarantee they don't have anything in their bodies that will kill your pet. that's being a responsible owner? and comparing zoos to circus' is flat out hilariouse... Justifying making aniamals doing tricsk Vs keeping them in captivity are 2 very different things in most peoples eyes... as for "free willy" well leave willys environment alone and not drive him into extinction and I'll STOP supporting Zoos and Aquariums dedicated to preserving many species humans are killing for our own greed.

Bottomfeeder has his moments like we all do.. but there is no need to imply he's kissing anyone's backside. He makes a valid argument.

And how do you know my fish don't want to be in my tanks? did you ask them? and if I put my favorite fish in a river I would be potentially doing harm to the ecosystem that I'de rather not do.. and made that choice when I brought my "Pet" home... just because it was once wild doesn't mean it should be put back. :duh:

no different then owning a large reptile, bird, other exotic... we keep pets... you're the one sounding like we should free them all. PETA much? :hypnotize
 
So you think it's proper husbandry to toss a disease ridden animal into an enclosure.... so you're not a hypocrite? white domestic mice are not found in nature... the disease they carry and can xfer.. the foods they eat... no guarantee they don't have anything in their bodies that will kill your pet. that's being a responsible owner? and comparing zoos to circus' is flat out hilariouse... Justifying making aniamals doing tricsk Vs keeping them in captivity are 2 very different things in most peoples eyes... as for "free willy" well leave willys environment alone and not drive him into extinction and I'll STOP supporting Zoos and Aquariums dedicated to preserving many species humans are killing for our own greed.

Bottomfeeder has his moments like we all do.. but there is no need to imply he's kissing anyone's backside. He makes a valid argument.

And how do you know my fish don't want to be in my tanks? did you ask them? and if I put my favorite fish in a river I would be potentially doing harm to the ecosystem that I'de rather not do.. and made that choice when I brought my "Pet" home... just because it was once wild doesn't mean it should be put back. :duh:

no different then owning a large reptile, bird, other exotic... we keep pets... you're the one sounding like we should free them all. PETA much? :hypnotize

I dont feed mice but could care less if someone else does. My family is in japan were they use feeders all the time where the fish are bigger and better looking and breed more species than in america and they use feeder goldfish all the time. Yet in the us you always claim this is no good and will kill your fish its a lie. No fish should be feed non healthy unquarentiened food thats the problem not the feeders or the mouse almost every store ive been to in this country dont quarentine anything they sell let alone the feeders because everything is about money. Keeping wild animals in captivity is cruel period zoo or circus. Zoos use every excuse in the world but its 90% profit. No one should release a fish in the wild but if u did the fish would not run back to u and wait to be put in your tank,no matter how big your ego your tank doesnt compare to the wild. I have imported lots of dogs from south america and have many friends there the fish eat a wide range of food. The pellets most of u use have all kind of dyes fillers and other garbage fish dont want or need. You can feed your fish mice if it is healthy and presented in the correct way. Im 40 years old not a lil kid who can be swayed because the mfkrs dont like what i say. I have friends who have hundreds of acres in the jungle and ltfao at some of the things i tell them i here on this board. And there is a bunch of backside kissing that goes on on this board
 
So you think it's proper husbandry to toss a disease ridden animal into an enclosure.... so you're not a hypocrite? white domestic mice are not found in nature... the disease they carry and can xfer.. the foods they eat... no guarantee they don't have anything in their bodies that will kill your pet. that's being a responsible owner? and comparing zoos to circus' is flat out hilariouse... Justifying making aniamals doing tricsk Vs keeping them in captivity are 2 very different things in most peoples eyes... as for "free willy" well leave willys environment alone and not drive him into extinction and I'll STOP supporting Zoos and Aquariums dedicated to preserving many species humans are killing for our own greed.

Bottomfeeder has his moments like we all do.. but there is no need to imply he's kissing anyone's backside. He makes a valid argument.

And how do you know my fish don't want to be in my tanks? did you ask them? and if I put my favorite fish in a river I would be potentially doing harm to the ecosystem that I'de rather not do.. and made that choice when I brought my "Pet" home... just because it was once wild doesn't mean it should be put back. :duh:

no different then owning a large reptile, bird, other exotic... we keep pets... you're the one sounding like we should free them all. PETA much? :hypnotize

Your ego is so big you dont understand anything my statement wasnt for you to put your fish back,or to say zoos are better than the circus or even to feed mice just to show everything we do is considered cruelty by someone so no need to judge just to take care of your animals to the best of your ability not to try to command everyone to do it your way. But that what this country is all about the freedom to be a follower.
 
If I could get one I would feed a baby monkey to one of my fish. Don't care about peta or any of that garbage. If you do it once and a while it is fine. If you get it from a quality source you don't have to worry about it being sick, not that many mammal illnesses can transfer to fish anyway.

That being said I would eat a dolphin or a whale without remorse. Things eat other things. Fish eat mice, look at brown trout or muskies for example if they didn't eat mice in the wild then why the hell do mouse flies or lures work so well? Those are wild sickly mice not reptile safe store bought white lab mice.



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^ i couldn't agree more
 
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