Future of the Ray Keeping Hobby?

[wednesday13]

SO, IF the future of ray keeping is so strong then why are the people that ARE breeding PURE blooded rays tossing in the towel?

Cause the people tossing in the towel aren't being supported. Shouldn't be hard to sell pure blooded rays but here we are - shopping LFSs to help move them gives a glimpse into the priority of fish shops which is to maximize profit - so if they can't double their money they simply aren't interested. So leaves no choice really - either sell the breeders and raise the offspring or just quit breeding them altogether. With no pup sales to help offset the $1K/mo electric bills and half that in food a month why would anyone with any common sense push forward? Cause they can afford to, but to people like me who simply can't there's only 1 option. Myself, I'll likely always have a ray tank, but watching my fellow hobbyists that have been in this longer then I have hang it up just makes me sick.....

IMO, it comes back to the “availability”… alot has changed in the last 10yrs… Can get just about whatever u want now for cheap. Prob not great quality but new comers don’t know that. For a period “we” controlled the market. Group orders/imports for new w/c breeding stock and we all traded/sold to each other at prices we set lol… was fun while it lasted. Small timers like us can’t compete with the quantity and price cuts being offered now.
Even if we could… “realistically” can one person at home really produce enough to compensate the bills? Not really IMO. I bred for a while and soon realized it wasen’t worth it past the enjoyment for myself. Kept males outta my tanks for yrs even just enjoying having rays. Trips to the airport, packing and dealing with people are what stopped me from “caring” lol… just more headache brought into something that was for my own enjoyment …

i do believe the “sleepers” such as urself will profit in the future when ur the only ones left with pure bloods . I know u enjoy it and thats all that matters. The “fire” so to speak for it all comes and goes as always.

 

[Damascus]

SO, IF the future of ray keeping is so strong then why are the people that ARE breeding PURE blooded rays tossing in the towel?

Cause the people tossing in the towel aren't being supported. Shouldn't be hard to sell pure blooded rays but here we are - shopping LFSs to help move them gives a glimpse into the priority of fish shops which is to maximize profit - so if they can't double their money they simply aren't interested. So leaves no choice really - either sell the breeders and raise the offspring or just quit breeding them altogether. With no pup sales to help offset the $1K/mo electric bills and half that in food a month why would anyone with any common sense push forward? Cause they can afford to, but to people like me who simply can't there's only 1 option. Myself, I'll likely always have a ray tank, but watching my fellow hobbyists that have been in this longer then I have hang it up just makes me sick.....

I'm getting close to hanging it up. Been working with pearls and leopoldi for a long time. Just can't compete with the mixed hybrids anymore.

Have already gotten rid of my marbles. Shutting down the tanks 1 type at a time unfortunately.

 

[DB junkie]

IMO, it comes back to the “availability”… alot has changed in the last 10yrs… Can get just about whatever u want now for cheap. Prob not great quality but new comers don’t know that. For a period “we” controlled the market. Group orders/imports for new w/c breeding stock and we all traded/sold to each other at prices we set lol… was fun while it lasted. Small timers like us can’t compete with the quantity and price cuts being offered now.
Even if we could… “realistically” can one person at home really produce enough to compensate the bills? Not really IMO. I bred for a while and soon realized it wasen’t worth it past the enjoyment for myself. Kept males outta my tanks for yrs even just enjoying having rays. Trips to the airport, packing and dealing with people are what stopped me from “caring” lol… just more headache brought into something that was for my own enjoyment …

i do believe the “sleepers” such as urself will profit in the future when ur the only ones left with pure bloods . I know u enjoy it and thats all that matters. The “fire” so to speak for it all comes and goes as always.

Really? Maybe certain people with friends in high places can get whatever - I can't. lol.

"Sleepers" lol..... I know "profit" and ray keeping don't belong in the same sentence, but being able to cash in some pups does take some of the sting out of it, but when it becomes difficult to move quality pure breds without all the headaches you mentioned then a guy has to wonder how much of the headaches are justifiable just to relieve some of the sting??? I couldn't agree more in the end it's just more headache.

Definitely funner to enjoy the company of other pyros then to sit and watch stuff burn by yourself - if your lighter gets wet alone you're done. In the company of others you can light your lighter with theirs.....

 

[wednesday13]

Really? Maybe certain people with friends in high places can get whatever - I can't. lol.

"Sleepers" lol..... I know "profit" and ray keeping don't belong in the same sentence, but being able to cash in some pups does take some of the sting out of it, but when it becomes difficult to move quality pure breds without all the headaches you mentioned then a guy has to wonder how much of the headaches are justifiable just to relieve some of the sting??? I couldn't agree more in the end it's just more headache.

Definitely funner to enjoy the company of other pyros then to sit and watch stuff burn by yourself - if your lighter gets wet alone you're done. In the company of others you can light your lighter with theirs.....

Def. Agree with u there man… was much more fun when there were alot of us “in” to swap pups with, group order and keep bloodlines “in the family” lol… i believe it will come back around. I already miss and regret selling my flat fish. Needed the quick cash for hospital bills. Sadly after all my yrs with them, the most profit came from ending it lol…
Another point i think works against the hobby these days is ups/fedex or just internet sales in general. Eliminated people driving around to meet each other for sales and really took “people” out of the equation. Just click and ship now lol… Im no better with it. Much more convenient to open my front door for a new fish then make an airport run or travel at all for in person pickup. Gas money is easily justified for shipping price. Its become almost impossible to get a live human to show up for a sale or even for free fish .

 

[Stingray Biogenetics]

https://cites.org/sites/default/files/documents/E-CoP19-Prop-39.pdf

-
This CITES paper from 2022 explains the evolution of the rays market. Nowadays it seems to be all about keeping up with trends and the next best thing. Albino’s, Albino hybrids, BD big spot, White Diamond and Super Whites.
“The international demand for the aquarium trade has declined due to captive breeding facilities supplying more attractive and valuable color pattern hybrids to the aquarium market.”
A lot of these “BD big spots” coming from Asia, outperform the quality of the BDs we see here in North America because a majority of them have Super White in their genetics even if it’s a small percentage Super White. This is why these BDs coming in have such big spots compared to what we normally see. The reason these “BD big spots” happen to be so cheap is because they are essentially Asia’s “rejects or throw aways” because they know they can produce better quality (bigger spots etc.).
It’s all about keeping up with demand apparently..

 

[DB junkie]

It’s all about keeping up with demand apparently..

This is kinda why I started this thread..... I can't believe there is ONLY demand for mutts. Apparently I'm wrong in the mindset that there's a lot of demand for pure blood.....

Worst part is even though you pay top dollar for imported "pure" blood can we really trust that they are pure? Doesn't seem like there's many out there keeping track of lineage of rays that aren't top dollar rays.

 

[Alexxxxsv14]

If they were legal to keep in Ca I would love to have one

 

[Damascus]

This is kinda why I started this thread..... I can't believe there is ONLY demand for mutts. Apparently I'm wrong in the mindset that there's a lot of demand for pure blood.....

Worst part is even though you pay top dollar for imported "pure" blood can we really trust that they are pure? Doesn't seem like there's many out there keeping track of lineage of rays that aren't top dollar rays.

So many "pure" BD coming in from overseas are mutts. Very little lineage control when you are getting black and white rays for under 200.

It's all about numbers. Quantity over quality and people just getting into rays don't know any better. They just want a cheap ray, with many that will end up killing it only to replace it with a similar one on the next shipment.

 

[oldfish]

I have been in the hobby 60 years and keeping rays at least 12 years (maybe 15 lol). I do enjoy raising them and am not keeping them to make money. I think it is important to only breed pure pups. I rarely have any trouble selling my pups and I feel that their purity is a selling point. When you buy a pure ray pup you know what you are getting. Hybrids can develop over time into something poor looking. It does seem most of my ray buyers are new to ray keeping and none have heard of this forum. This forum used to be very active with new and experienced ray hobbyist....What happened ?

 

[spotfin]

Interesting thread. My family moved 4 years ago, and I sold my rays and tank just prior to us moving as I didn't want to mess with moving the tank and fish multiple times. I do miss keeping rays. Some of you remember I mainly kept and bred hystrix rays (hopefully there are a few of my pups still around).

I would agree ray keeping is not what it used to be. No doubt ray keeping is expensive to start and maintain. Perhaps this is one reason why there seems to be a decline. I never did it for the money. I would guess I sold enough pups to recover what I paid for my tank setup.

It seemed about the time I got out of rays the traffic in this forum started to slow. I think several of the big name ray keepers that were here shifted to Facebook groups. I don't do FB- is there as much ray activity there now?

I'm not a fan of hybrid rays. But, like any other fish or pet, that seems to be the way things go. This drives the market. IMO, a classic Leo is the best looking black ray.