Washing Your Bio

[RD.]

I'll keep this as short as possible for you, Matt. The doctor is wrong. It's just that simple, no debate, no argument. Again, the fact that this process works for you proves nothing, other than what I have been stating all along. I suspect the same reason that it works for you, is also why it works for Dr. Poret.



squint - nitrification can be an issue in distribution systems that use chloramine, but it can also be (sometimes easily) remedied. Higher chloramine levels, higher chlorine ammonia-nitrogen ratios, distribution system flushing, and periodic switching to free chlorine are all ways in which one can resolve the issue. One of the reasons for switching to chlorine for short periods of time periodically, is to rid the system of chloramine resistant bacteria. Much like shocking a well in the spring. Different bacteria, but the same result. Of course nitrifying bacteria are present, I don't recall ever stating that there weren't?

You seemed to have missed this part:

Nitrifying bacteria in water distribution systems feed off of the ammonia, not chloramine. Running ones media under a tap doesn't feed anything, at that stage it is in straight disinfectant mode, designed to kill bacteria. This why folks like myself typically use water conditioners that split the chlorine/ammonia bond, allowing the nitrifying bacteria to safely remove the resulting now non-toxic free ammonia. Someone with a tank full of plants, and lower levels of chloramine might be fine with just sodium thiosulfate. I believe that is what Duane used for years on his 1ppm chloramine residual. He also had a lot of plants in his tanks. Not everyone does.

Again, you can blow smoke all you want, but please provide some data, peer reviewed papers, anything?, relating to this specific situation, or better yet, to my specific tap water, where it demonstrates that the nitrifying bio-bacteria found in my aquarium is not negatively affected by chloramine. One of the main reasons monochloramine has become so popular is due to its biocidal properties.

Safe for nitrifying bacteria? Safe for fish? Yeah, I don't think so. As stated, I have seen the net result of the toxicity of chloramine to both bacteria, and fish.

I think that anyone reading this down the road will have enough info at hand to make their own informed decision. Good luck.

 

[Lilyann]

Nitrifying bacteria around the world has made a nuisance of itself consuming chloramine. You're not going to kill something by exposing it to more of its food source.



The hobby seems to have decided that it already knows all knowable facts. Any contrary or new ideas must be wrong per the majority. This is a fantastic way to perpetuate misconceptions and permanently stunt the growth of knowledge in the hobby. Truth is subjective and it's decided by the majority. Science...meh. Nowhere is this more apparent than Reddit which is famous for downvoting facts. There's a name for this, the illusory truth effect.

This.

 

[skjl47]

Where do you think the nitrifying bacteria in our aquariums comes from?

Hello; I have pondered this very question. There must be a mechanism by which bb eventually show up in tanks undergoing a fishless cycle. We take an empty tank, fill it with tap water and some liquid ammonia then in some weeks both strains of bb show up.
I have never searched about this but had dismissed the notion the bb are in the tap water because of the chlorine/chloramine. I once had figured maybe bacterium spores but some reading seemed to suggest the bb types do not form spores. Also considered air borne dust but this is also not likely if the bb do not form spores or some such similar dormant form.
This might be a topic in a different thread since this discussion is deterorating into a spat. I would like to know at any rate.

 

[benzjamin13]

I just called my local water department. They say the water comes out of their facility at 3ppm and by the time it reaches certain households, it can go down to 2ppm.

 

[RD.]

Ben - chlorine, or chloramine? IME you still need to test at your taps for accuracy. Spring run off, rainy periods, etc, can cause increased levels of disinfectant.

 

[RD.]

Numerous researchers over the years have documented that nitrification is more common during the warmer months. Most strains of nitrifiers grow optimally at temperatures between 25 and 30C (Watson, Valos, and Waterbury, 1981) although nitrification has occurred over a wide range of temperatures (8-26C) (Kirmeyer et al. 1995).

In the winter months, which seems to be most of the year where I live, very few if any nitrifyers would survive the water temperature.

In Australia, where squint's first paper was from, different story.

This is exactly why I hate wide sweeping generalizations. Mr. Poret foam does this, and he's a well educated long term aquarist, so surely his experience becomes fact. This is apparently the type of misinformation that squint seems to despise, but for the sake of arguing with me (about most anything) he jumps in just to attempt to prove me wrong, about nitrifyers, and the toxicity of chloramine. Ok-dokey. lol

Oh my, too funny. I'm the original skeptic, and my comments are mostly based on first hand experience, the same as those that are for some reason attempting to prove me wrong. I don't get it, but at the end of the day not my problem either.

 

[RD.]

Ben, if you are still in LA, according to the LADWP report from 2017, they state a chlorine residual in their lines of 1.7-2.2 ppm. It would probably be lower at your tap, unless you are just across the street from the source. It sounds like water is brought in from some distance, so probably not the case. Also, according to the supervisor of LADWP, they are in the final stages of expanding the use of chloramine to disinfect "most" of its distribution system.

What used to work for you. may not in the future. Just a heads up amigo.

 

[Lilyann]

Numerous researchers over the years have documented that nitrification is more common during the warmer months. Most strains of nitrifiers grow optimally at temperatures between 25 and 30C (Watson, Valos, and Waterbury, 1981) although nitrification has occurred over a wide range of temperatures (8-26C) (Kirmeyer et al. 1995).

In the winter months, which seems to be most of the year where I live, very few if any nitrifyers would survive the water temperature.

In Australia, where squint's first paper was from, different story.

This is exactly why I hate wide sweeping generalizations. Mr. Poret foam does this, and he's a well educated long term aquarist, so surely his experience becomes fact. This is apparently the type of misinformation that squint seems to despise, but for the sake of arguing with me (about most anything) he jumps in just to attempt to prove me wrong, about nitrifyers, and the toxicity of chloramine. Ok-dokey. lol

Oh my, too funny. I'm the original skeptic, and my comments are mostly based on first hand experience, the same as those that are for some reason attempting to prove me wrong. I don't get it, but at the end of the day not my problem either.

Oh brother, you take yourself much too seriously.
Others are arguing here simply to "prove you wrong" even though they secretly agree with you?
Come now, you are much too intelligent to mistake others claims as motivated personal attacks to spite you.
I think this is a perfect opportunity for an informed debate and you are more than informed- information is all you need to establish your position.
Keep the ego out of it- it is not necessary.

 

[RD.]

Amy, you should use the search button a bit, yes, oh brother there are those that argue with me just for the sake of arguing. lol Including both Matt, and squint. Not the first time, won't be the last. Not ego related at all, just the facts. But thank you for your concern. lol

 

[Lilyann]

Im sorry, what are your recommendations for me? The search button for what? I dont understand.