Homemade Food for South American Cichlids

[Lilyann]

I posted the following on "bloat" in 2012, it was later made a sticky. In that topic I mention grain fillers, and the potential risk associated with feeding certain species of fish excessive amounts of these types of ingredients.
https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/bloat-causes-cures-and-big-myths.456034/

Thank you for sharing JD. I also appreciate you including the study that works to establish that these claims are science-based ( peer-reviewed) and not merely anecdotal. Not that experience doesn't count in this hobby, but, any conclusions drawn should be additionally confirmed by referring to any up-to-date findings established through specialized (scientific) analysis.
I wish more of this types of studies could be accessible to aquarists, it would do much to eliminate the misinformation that continues to be promoted as if its validity is unquestionable.
I can see, from reading the article, exactly how my conclusions regarding pellets ( as the cause of my discus bloating) was misguided. I assumed that the pellets were the issue, despite my using a high quality pellet. You should of directed me to this article when I made that association--- or maybe you did and I missed it.
I have only read excerpts from the article you refer to, but intend to do so more thoroughly later. Thank you.

 

[Johnez]

Hey all, I hope you don't mind me bringing up this thread from the grave. It was pretty lively and thorough and brings up some of my concerns with American cichlid's optimal diet.

I have an Indian tank currently and I'm not a keeper yet of cichlids, however I plan on acquiring a small shoal of Firemouths and am doing the research on how best to keep them, feed them, and (selfishly) bring out the best color. I know these fish are not picky and will eat any good quality food by the way. The original poster wanted help in making a DIY fish food, and was heavily directed toward pellets-which I've no problem with-however my question is are manufactured foods actually optimal? Can we as hobbyists not do better?

I've taken a look at some highly recommended manufacturers and am confused. Many here and other forums shun the idea of terrestrial plant matter in fish food or useless ingredients, and yet three of the most commonly recommended manufacturers I've checked have ingredients that I'm not sure are beneficial to fish:

Repashy Soylent Green- Pea flour, Rice protein. 12% ash.

Omega One (floating cichlid pellet)- 2nd and 4th ingredient is wheat. 8% ash.

NLS (Regular) Whole wheat flour.

Now I understand that a packaged product needs binders or some way to stay "together," but what's the deal with "ash"? Secret ingredient for optimal health? Filler? Some manufacturing byproduct? Naturally occurring? I'm not even going to touch the beef heart deal mentioned earlier (wouldn't even consider it anyway), but I'd like to once again raise the possibility that maybe we can put together a totally nutritious diet without the ingredients that serve our needs or conveniences. I'm not talking about replacing or even debating whether premade food is bad, but surely as dedicated hobbyists it would be worth seeing if we can "roll our own," especially since our hobby has a strong DIY streak. A strong argument can be made about the issue of balance, most of us do not have degrees in ichthyology, and for that I don't have an answer. I do know that the products we buy are manufactured with limits (profit, ease of manufacture, storage, etc), and really this is a thing I don't care if it costs me double or a little extra time-in the end it's worth it to me.

Maybe it doesn't matter all that much. If these foods are 95% of optimal, perhaps it's not worth going for 100% and in the process risk screwing up a recipe and getting nowhere. Have we examined that thoroughly though? In nature many of these fish live longer lives than in aquaria, perhaps due to many reasons, but perhaps food quality is a limiting factor. One thing I like about this hobby is the constant refinement and discarding of outdated ideas tho, maybe food is the next frontier. I've seen it in the bug stuff getting big relatively recently.

 

[jjohnwm]

What a terrific thread! This is the sort of informational exchange that attracted me to MFK originally, and which keeps me coming back. Many thanks to @RD and others for contributing.

As an old-timer in the hobby with limited formal education in this area, and relying heavily on personal experience over the years, it's fantastic to have access to so many differing viewpoints regarding nutrition. The general thinking regarding fish nutrition has changed and evolved drastically over my decades in the hobby...for the better...but when a hobbyist stumbles upon "something that works"...or at least seems to work...it can be difficult to jump ship from one school of thought to another.

Inborn cynicism makes me take everything, from anyone, with a grain of salt. When a scientist says categorically that we now "know" that ABC is no longer correct and DEF is the ultimate answer, I tend to rear back and go "Hmmmm....really?" But when he says "We once thought that, but now we believe this..." I find it a bit easier to consider his new ideas.

So when a food manufacturer says...and they all do say it...that his food is The Ultimate Answer and absolutely provides all nutritional requirements perfectly, I just don't believe it. It feels safer to provide as varied a diet as possible in an attempt to hit all the nutritional bases; between dried, freeze-dried, frozen and live foods I bet that I normally have 15-20 different types on hand at any given moment, and use them all. I don't want to rely too much on any single food, and hope to avoid issues by using as large a variety as possible. A fish in its natural environment does not get a perfectly balanced diet with every bite it eats, or even over the course of a day or a week. The varied foods it ingests all contribute to its nutritional intake, so I don't see the concern with feeding a single perfect food. Even if such a thing existed, it still wouldn't be a natural way for the fish to obtain its dietary requirements, as evidenced by the analysis of their stomach contents. Every bite does not need to be absolutely perfect; it's the overall intake that matters.

Growth rates, as @RD alluded to, don't need to be at their maximum possible level; the fact that a breeder gets astronomical growth is great for him in a monetary sense as he can sell bigger fish earlier...but that high-speed and likely unnatural growth shouldn't be the yardstick by which a hobbyist measures success. It's not entirely a science...there can still be a degree of art in it as well.

 

[duanes]

Ash is a by-product of the pellet making, it is of no nutritional use, but a necessary evil of manufacturing process.
Its like the allowable insect number of parts, and mouse hairs found in cereal for humans, we don't want it, but its there because a certain amount is unavoidable.

 

[BIG-G]

Its like the allowable insect number of parts, and mouse hairs found in cereal for humans, we don't want it, but its there because a certain amount is unavoidable.

I didn’t want to know this. Thanks a lot duanes .
It’s one of those things that you know happens, but you like to live in blissful ignorance.

 

[duanes]

One of my internships (way back when) was with a city health department .
Some of the things you see and learn getting out in the field, you really don't want to see.

 

[jjohnwm]

One of my internships (way back when) was with a city health department .
Some of the things you see and learn getting out in the field, you really don't want to see.

As Bob Seger sang: "I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then..."

 

[Backfromthedead]

Ash is a by-product of the pellet making, it is of no nutritional use, but a necessary evil of manufacturing process.
Its like the allowable insect number of parts, and mouse hairs found in cereal for humans, we don't want it, but its there because a certain amount is unavoidable.

I'd hate to think my cinnamon toast crunch was up to 8% cockroach!

 

[Hendre]

I'd hate to think my cinnamon toast crunch was up to 8% cockroach!

Extra protein

 

[ILHNARI13]

That would be just the kind of response that I would expect from that group.
Thank you for sharing this.

I use the morning wood pleco stuff for isopods (vivariums) and it creates a pretty decent size batch for not that much cash