Setting up my second loach tank.

[Midwater]

Would 48-60 kuhli loaches be too many for a footprint of 1.83m x 47cm together with the Botia?

Better than being eaten.

Actually, you can have a lot of loaches in a small space. Even in a large tank, all the loaches might inhabit a small space. They like being close.

A small tank will do, but make sure you have got sufficient filtration.

I have found in general, it is better to have two loach setups, large and small.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Good to hear. I'm aware that more loaches can fit in a given space than most other fish (since they are so social), just thought I'd make sure.

I have found in general, it is better to have two loach setups, large and small.

I guess I'll have 3 then
The 110 liter will be the small loach setup with the chain loaches, this tank will be the small-medium setup with the kuhlis+Burmese+zebra loaches, and the clown loach tank will ultimately end up as the medium-large setup with clown+yoyo+horseface loaches.

 

[Midwater]

I would like to see some pictures of your horsefaces.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

I won't be getting them for quite a while (I expect it'll take me until 2024 to save up for the custom tank and get it built), but when I do, absolutely!

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

By the way, Midwater , did you keep your kuhli loaches with your Botia when you used to have kuhlis? If you did, curious how it ended up.

 

[Midwater]

By the way, Midwater , did you keep your kuhli loaches with your Botia when you used to have kuhlis? If you did, curious how it ended up.

I kept them with some histries and chains, amongst other small stuff in a planted tank.

The main problem I found with khulis, they get everywhere. Everywhere. At least, everywhere they should not be. Some would get through the gaps in the overflow. Others would swim back through the flow in the return, and get through the flow and even pass the impellers into the wet and dry sump. Others hid out under the soil. And you can't do anything. They just don't listen.

A cichlid breeder at Chatuchak offered me a tank full of horsefaces for next to nothing. He needed the tank. They looked incredible doing loach antics just under the surface of the sand. I did not have a spare tank so I did not take them. One of my great mistakes.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

LOL on the kuhlis getting everywhere they shouldn't and not listening. (LOL=both laugh out loud and Loaches Online! Double pun???)

Sorry to hear about the missed opportunity of the horsefaces.

Just moved the black kuhli loaches to their temporary safe haven of the 110 liter tank with the chain loaches (all 24 accounted for, 0 eaten!). The tank is now crawling with kuhlis and looks like it's infested with worms from a distance.
As soon as I get a good picture I'll put it here.

Looks like I now have the first-purchased residents of this tank! Wouldn't have foreseen this 24 hours ago.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

This update may very well be the last one before I start setting the tank up. The expected time for that is a mere 1 month from today!

First of all, the river manifold idea is unfortunately history because of a long-standing grudge between 2 people that I probably shouldn't tell the story of (although I am fortunately neither the grudger nor the grudgee).
But perhaps that's not so bad. While suction cupped powerheads do indeed exist, I have yet to find any on the scale of the big Sicce Voyager pumps.

Second, I filled the tank with water yesterday in order to fully settle all the silt in the sand before the fish went in (since rinsing so much sand isn't practical). To my great surprise, unlike when I added sand to the currently running 473 liter, the silt stayed in the sand and did not cloud the water at all.

Third (although not shown above), the Sicce XStream is making decorating the tank surprisingly difficult, as the plastic plants I wanted to use are getting bowled over. To fix that, they will be siliconed to some rocks, and I'm also considering adding some driftwood+stones for flow-resistant decor.

Fourth, the XStream is making lots and lots of surface agitation all by itself. I can only imagine how much surface agitation it together with the Sicce Voyager and 4 filters will make.
Looks like those air stones I previously alluded to will not be needed!

Fifth, I went to the pet store and got some pictures of the exact roseline sharks and Odessa barbs I may be purchasing for this tank (if they haven't sold out by June 29).
They look gorgeous in the store tank already and will certainly look even better when settled in here. I'm almost as excited for these as for the loaches.

Last, but not least, I just realized how nice the tank's dimensions are.
First of all, it's a quite long tank for its volume, giving a full 1.83m of length for the fish to swim in and for me to aquascape.

Were this something like a 1.22m x 61cm x 61cm 454 liter, there wouldn't be that nice long length.

Second, something like a 1.22m x 61cm x 61cm 454 liter would also be impossible to get here (this is a basement and the stairway is narrow). Not a problem with the long tank - the movers ju-u-u-st got it in.

Finally, it's as if the alcove this tank is in was made for a 473 liter. There is a bit of space on both sides to do maintenance on while the length fills the majority, and the floor raise between the alcove and the rest of the room/hall is just enough for the 47cm width of this tank.
A 61cm wide 454 liter would be both out of scale visually and physically with that.

I could easily drool up enough excitement drool to overflow this tank.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Got a few more queries. This one is related to the zebra loaches and how to make them less shy.

-I assume having the roseline shark/Odessa barb dither fish well established in the tank (like I was planning to do) will help their confidence more than adding them before the dither fish?

-My guess is that when the kuhli loaches (be they striped or black) are added won't have an effect on how shy the zebra loaches are. But what about the fairly active, confident, and boisterous Burmese?
Would it be better to add them before or after the zebras for maximally active zebras?

-Could the environment of the 1 month quarantine have an effect on how shy they are? I ask because even very active/bold chain loaches were quite shy in my quarantine tank.
They did regain their boldness, but I'm a little concerned that may not happen with zebras. How valid is this concern and what can I do to help it?

Midwater , how active are your zebra loaches? If they are reasonably active, why do you believe that is so and what do you think (aside from the above) I can do to replicate it when I get mine?

 

[Midwater]

I think the zebra are just as active as the chains. Both prefer the lower water, and come up confidently when they want.

One difference, with the chain loaches, the larger they are they more you see them, and with the zebra loaches, the larger ones lay low and guard their territory.

I do not think that quarantine would have changed their behaviour. Was your quarantine tank plain or planted? If it was too plain, they might not like it.

The way to make loaches confident is to have a large group - a large group - and plenty of decoration. They tend to get active when you don't expect them.

Although striata are larger, they can be a little fragile and not as long lived as chains. If chain loaches are happy, you can easily get twenty years out of them.

I do not know if dither fish make a difference with loaches. I have got denisons and SAE in the small loach partition, but not as dither, but because I like them and they generally stay in mid to high water.

Looking forward to more updates.