Two Siamese giant carp, ~12", ~2 years old, in 4500 gal
- Thread starter thebiggerthebetter
- Start date
The big pair has suffered an occasional attack from the two ~2' VATF tank mates in the 4500 gal. Eventually I had enough of that, so off they had gone into a 240 gal until a better tank is available for them. That was about 4-5 months ago.
They do ok in there, feed adequately, grew back their damaged fins and scales, but they too throw violent tantrums every now and then. Something spooks them and so far I've not noted any rhyme or reason. It could be the 3' wels they share the tank with. There is also a 1.5' black ear shark catfish, two 1'+ balas, and three 1' tinfoils.
The Giant Siamese Carps grow so slowly that it seems they haven't at all in the last year or longer.
As for the trio of the small ones, the last one perished in a manner similar to the first two. Suffered from deformations, albeit not as bad as the first guy, listlessness, poor appetite, etc. for a long time.
So buyer beware: Based on this whole batch of three, I allege at this point (although it could be some unlikely weird and novel to me parasitic effects) that some of the GSC we get in the ornamental trade even from the vendors of highest reputation (Jeff Rapps in this case) possess an exceedingly poor genealogy.
They may look quite fine at 3"-5" but fail to grow past 6"-7", slowly develop obvious and strong deformations, including gill curl and skull and backbone deformities, have poor appetite, and are not viable in general, which I think is brought about by their horrible genes.
This is not too surprising as the ornamental trade gets the refuse from the farming operations, as the GSC are getting extinct in the wild. We are the bottom feeders here and are fed the no-good garbage (and for good money... but we choose to do it).
I assume Jeff couldn't have known and in either case I have no problem with Jeff whatsoever but much respect. Neither anyone is perfect or all-knowing. It took me a full 1.5 years to find this out. I am sure all GSCs we get are culls, just some are much, much worse than others.
Here are the pics of the last one. Scales were removed by a purple Labeo tank mate post mortum and this had nothing to do with its shape or death:
They do ok in there, feed adequately, grew back their damaged fins and scales, but they too throw violent tantrums every now and then. Something spooks them and so far I've not noted any rhyme or reason. It could be the 3' wels they share the tank with. There is also a 1.5' black ear shark catfish, two 1'+ balas, and three 1' tinfoils.
The Giant Siamese Carps grow so slowly that it seems they haven't at all in the last year or longer.
As for the trio of the small ones, the last one perished in a manner similar to the first two. Suffered from deformations, albeit not as bad as the first guy, listlessness, poor appetite, etc. for a long time.
So buyer beware: Based on this whole batch of three, I allege at this point (although it could be some unlikely weird and novel to me parasitic effects) that some of the GSC we get in the ornamental trade even from the vendors of highest reputation (Jeff Rapps in this case) possess an exceedingly poor genealogy.
They may look quite fine at 3"-5" but fail to grow past 6"-7", slowly develop obvious and strong deformations, including gill curl and skull and backbone deformities, have poor appetite, and are not viable in general, which I think is brought about by their horrible genes.
This is not too surprising as the ornamental trade gets the refuse from the farming operations, as the GSC are getting extinct in the wild. We are the bottom feeders here and are fed the no-good garbage (and for good money... but we choose to do it).
I assume Jeff couldn't have known and in either case I have no problem with Jeff whatsoever but much respect. Neither anyone is perfect or all-knowing. It took me a full 1.5 years to find this out. I am sure all GSCs we get are culls, just some are much, much worse than others.
Here are the pics of the last one. Scales were removed by a purple Labeo tank mate post mortum and this had nothing to do with its shape or death:
Update. The pair of GSC has got upgraded 100x to a 25,000 gal. You can see the nuclear tantrum they performed in their prior 240 gal when I started netting them. They dart without any consideration where the walls are, hit the lids too, broke one lid some time ago that I had to laminate with silicone.
Two year update. The original GSC pair has been doing okay-ish in the 25K. They stopped growing seems like years ago and are still around 20". The reason being I suppose (and I have been told) that they are [1] preferential filter feeders and [2] need to be fed often or ideally continuously to grow and thrive. So far I couldn't provide this for them as I feed the tank only 3 times a day and the competition is fierce to say the least.
Hard to take good pics of them in the large dark pond with glare off the front glass facing outdoors, so some really poor ones:
Hard to take good pics of them in the large dark pond with glare off the front glass facing outdoors, so some really poor ones:
15 month update. The original GSC pair has been (what word to use ?) adequate but not growing in the 25K, same as reported before above. They stopped growing 4 years ago and are still around 20". The reason being I suppose (and I have been told) that they are [1] preferential filter feeders and [2] need to be fed often or ideally continuously to grow and thrive. So far I couldn't provide this for them as I feed the tank only 3 times a day and the competition is fierce to say the least. Hence I think the lack of growth. At least they do not lose weight they already have. Perhaps I should consider separating them into their own 240 gal (too small though) and feeding them more and more often... They like swimming though, despite not a hydrodynamic shape for a fish, I see them doing laps in the 25K often.
Never kept them but from your descriptions they would appear smart enough to quickly adapt to targeted feeding through a PVC pipe tube? Sinking high vegetable protein pellet - algae disc or DIY duckweed bombs etc.
They look fantastic over a meter.
Most food fish species sold to ornamental trade are actually of higher quality, usually hand picked. Food fish species are sold by wey weight. Ornamental fish species are sold individually resulting in 30 or 50 times better prices. Unless there is an unscrupulous middle man doing a switch with no regard towards future business relationships.
They look fantastic over a meter.
Most food fish species sold to ornamental trade are actually of higher quality, usually hand picked. Food fish species are sold by wey weight. Ornamental fish species are sold individually resulting in 30 or 50 times better prices. Unless there is an unscrupulous middle man doing a switch with no regard towards future business relationships.
Thank you for this. I am perplexed. This is news to me and if true would reverse my naïve perception 180 degrees.
The picture in my head, based on overall pretty poor genetic quality food fish we see in general in the ornamental fish trade, has always been that our trade gets the culls, which are the waste, the fish of little or no value except when processed into a fertilizer or a food supplement for other domestic animals. The introduction of the ornamental trade route is merely another competitive way to dispose of the live culled babies and juvies and perhaps make a bit more money than from the fertilizer or supplement route.
Perhaps some hand picking also occurs and it looks like this is what your comment maybe is generalizing... while I have only been exposed to and am talking about a commercial scale operation with millions of culls that make their way to fish stores and vendors.
Some noteworthy info from YT:
Sanjip Shrestha: Here in Nepal, some fish farm regularly give some greens to catla, carp and other carp like fish. Fish from those farms are much more healthier and grow faster than those of pellet feeding fish farms. Maybe you should try giving them some greens sometimes.
TBTB: Thank you. Like leafy or chopped cabbage, salad, lettuce, parsley, celery, or green beans, etc.? I think a carp would take these easy but a filter feeder like catla or GSC? Would they take it?
Sanjip Shrestha: They feed them pure grass that grow naturally on the bank of their ponds. Catla and other carps were in the same pond. Not sure if all the fish ate those grass or just those carps.
TBTB: Thank you so much for this valuable info.
Sanjip Shrestha: Here in Nepal, some fish farm regularly give some greens to catla, carp and other carp like fish. Fish from those farms are much more healthier and grow faster than those of pellet feeding fish farms. Maybe you should try giving them some greens sometimes.
TBTB: Thank you. Like leafy or chopped cabbage, salad, lettuce, parsley, celery, or green beans, etc.? I think a carp would take these easy but a filter feeder like catla or GSC? Would they take it?
Sanjip Shrestha: They feed them pure grass that grow naturally on the bank of their ponds. Catla and other carps were in the same pond. Not sure if all the fish ate those grass or just those carps.
TBTB: Thank you so much for this valuable info.
