Gulper catfish trio, ~7"

[jjohnwm]

So sorry to read this; Gulpers are such amazing fish, but in looking over threads about them I sometimes wonder if anyone, anywhere has actually managed to maintain them in good health for extended periods. I mean, between skin problems, bloating, lack of appetite, general lethargy, medication sensitivity...they appear to be one of the most fragile, sensitive and difficult species in the hobby?

Or is it just because we only see and read about the ones that develop problems? How about it: anybody have a positive report about long-term success with this species?

By "long-term" I am talking about a minimum of several years in captivity, not a fish purchased 3 or 4 months ago which hasn't died yet.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

They are amazing, an instant crowd favorite with our visitors when they see them come out, swim clumsily and feed like the mini-monsters they are.

Yes, people keep them for many years, decade+, e.g. koltsixx who has discussed this in this thread IIRC or if not in several others, including his.

Yes, our culture could use much improvement in the reporting dept. (or not?) ... 1 in 10,000 peers follows through half-heartedly it seems. I tried to start to change it on the MFK by proposing a new catalog of special journal/blog style threads by fish species... but so far failed miserably - 1. almost no one follows my example of self-mutilation 2. the big guys never listened to me, much esteemed peers like @RD shot me down too, which is okay, I am not complaining but explaining since you touched upon it. It could have been a bad idea because it has never been tested. Overall, I am afraid MFK has been slowly dying for a long time and I fear may be gone any moment now and with it will disappear many years of my hard work blogging on each of our fish. Oh well. Let the chips fall.

Yes, gulper are not a beginner fish because of particular water needs and are slightly more sensitive but overall they are rather hardy and robust vs many touchy fish, especially sw fish, e.g. moorish idol.

If I wasn't such an idiot, I'd still have 9-10 of ours. We bought 3 in 2015 and 7 in 2021:

1. Lost two in 2017-18 supposedly to thiaminase and/or bacterial infection that came with a fish from the wild. I tend to think thiaminase.
2. Lost 1 of the 7 soon from the store, reason unknown.
3. Lost another 4 of the 7 due to thiaminase, rather confident.
4. Almost saved the last 2 of the 7 from thiaminase-caused B1 deficiency but killed them by formalin-MG treatment, forgot to lower the dose.

All in all 1 for 10 still with us, who knows for how long, the original one from 2015 that was just every bit as sick as its two kin that died in 2017-18 but came back from the brink on his own. Back then I had no idea, blamed the infection, but now think it was likely B1 lack. How it came back, how it held on, how it hasn't come down again with another serious B1 lack relapse, God only knows.

1/10. Live and learn. Yes, every day. When you get sick and tired, hang up your banjo next to your mojo and start digging I am pushing back at your signature.

 

[jjohnwm]

I think it's largely a matter of people not following through with their fish reports, as you mentioned. So, when I google Gulper Cat, I get video after video of catfish eating expensive tankmates, but little else; and when I use the search function here on MFK, I get dozens of hits where they are mentioned in passing...and lots of hits detailing terrified owners who have owned their Gulpers for as much as a whole week and can't figure out why they haven't eaten yet, along with lots more describing in gruesome detail the disgusting skin lesions, sores, ulcers, abrasions, growths and discolourations that these fish seem to be prone to. The picture being painted by all this is perhaps a bit discouraging.

I get why folks don't update threads when their fish are doing well. I enjoy my Jelly Cat and, to a somewhat lesser extent, my Red Wolf...so much so that I would likely have no problem doing a daily update. But it would feel silly, and I probably piss enough people off now without alienating even more by doing too much of that. So time passes and nothing more is heard, unless something interesting happens...and, let's face it, when something interesting happens it is often not good. Smooth sailing is what I and most keepers strive for...but then what is there to report?

Viktor, if my signature line rubs you the wrong way, I can change it; I could use the one I have on a hunting forum I frequent:

Eat right, don't drink, don't smoke, exercise, get lots of sleep...and die anyway!

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

 

[HarleyK]

Sorry to hear about the loss.
Kudos to you for the thorough documentation! It's tough to write the painful learnings down.

 

[HarleyK]

thebiggerthebetter - What are your thoughts on how the dedicated MFKer might be able to overcome the challenges with thiaminase for gulpers?

I think you always supplemented feeders with VitaChem, which apparently was not adequate to prevent Vit B1 deficiency. In hindsight, Vit B1 (=thiamine) is not listed on VitaChem's guaranteed analysis. One has to wonder why that is, and what VitaChem is good for after all?!

Vit B1 Injections are obviously an emergency action, and I salute your dedication to do that for the gulpers!

You mentioned Dr. Keller, and you said that the TN Aquarium fortifies food with Thiamine E paste. This one --> here <-- I assume? At 1 ml per kg raw fish, that's tough to dose for hobby-scale feedings, even hobbyists with monster tanks. Let alone those of us who grow out their monsters and start with small dead feeders. Seems tricky...

koltsixx - any insights on how you kept your gulpers happy & healthy? Could you kindly share again - how long did you have yours for, and what did you feed them?

Thank you both!
HarleyK

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Thank you HarleyK for perfectly asked and prepared questions and comments.

1. Straightforward presoak in B1 (with or without other vitamins or VitaChem).
2. Injection of the same via syringe into thawed fish.
3. Yes, this is the Thiamine E paste that was discussed, it is deposited by a dosing syringe ($100) rather easily or smeared by hand by cheapskates on thawed fish. I've never used it. I bought 1 kilo of B1 powder for $90 and have been presoaking.
4. Stuffing B1 tabs into thawed fish or injecting B1 solution. B1 is impossible to overdose as it is extremely water soluble and the excess is easily shed by fish.
5. Stuffing high quality all-in-one pellets into thawed fish.
6. Feeding disease-free, gut-loaded live fish known to NOT contain thiaminase, e.g. tilapia and other cichlids.

VitaChem obviously lists Thiamin mononitrate in the ingredients, but indeed not in the guaranteed analysis. Good eye. I've no clue why not.

VitaChem alone I believe is good if one uses enough of it and consistently. My biggest fall occurred when VitaChem stopped making 1 gal jugs I was buying for years, so I had to buy the next biggest size which is 16 fl oz and which is dispensed through a little squirt hole, so I haven't noticed how I began to use significantly less of VitaChem. Understood it only in retrospect.

 

[koltsixx]

Yes, people keep them for many years, decade+, e.g. koltsixx who has discussed this in this thread IIRC or if not in several others, including his.

I'm really sorry to her about your loss Viktor and sorry about the journal. Without the higher ups it's hard to choose a direction for the site much less institute it. Not that I'm blaming them either as I've said before them having other issues including maintaining the site as it is that hinders their ability to be as active in the forum's development and daily goings on. I personally would like a journal section too mostly because I wanted to document for myself some things and presenting an eventual summary of my experiences with different fish long term. I however also see a problem, individual experiences will vary and sharing some of them may be detrimental. How many fish of the species should they have kept and for how long before their experiences represent an accurate account of keeping the species. How accurate are their water monitoring, temperature, feeding routines, etc. How do hobbyists know which accounts to listen too. I'm not saying it's a bad idea but it I think it would need some fine tuning to work.

koltsixx - any insights on how you kept your gulpers happy & healthy? Could you kindly share again - how long did you have yours for, and what did you feed them?

Thank you both!
HarleyK

Hi HarleyK sorry but my experiences with Gulpers was short. I had issues with them eating tankmates and rehomed them. My long-term experience is with Trachycorystes. Closely related to Gulpers but different maybe enough to not be a completely accurate account of how to keep Gulpers but I imagine cloe enough to be helpful. Viktor also had trouble with keeping his Trachys as well and at the time he wasn't sure what the cause was, but it may have been the same he would later find out could have caused issues for the Gulpers which would be the thiaminase-caused B1 deficiency.

I originally had 4 Trachycorystes but sold 2 and kept a pair who've tried to breed several times in the 15 years I've had them. I've never really measure them but I've taken a ruler to the tank and the female seems to be about 17-18 inches the male smaller. The Trachycorystes don't seem to be particularly sensitive to water parameters accepting a wide range as long as it's within healthy suggested norms, nothing too extreme. They readily take pellets my Gulpers not so easily but they did learn to accept them. Both had a diet of pellets soaked in Vitachem, silversides, nightcrawlers and shrimp stuffed with pellets. All my fish also have periods of fasting, usually 2 days between large meals unless they're juveniles. I don't soak the silversides, nightcrawlers or shrimp. I feel based on a very non- scientific based deduction that the nature of their bodies makes them resistant to soaking. Slime coat and other natural protectors I imagine make vitamins unlikely to be absorbed well. It's why I stuff the shrimp, to try and increase the amount of vitamins etc that I know the fish are taking in. I actually keep quite a few fish from that family and have had decent success. Even some breeding attempts which is impressive considering the communities I put them in.

For Viktor it's infinitely harder, he's taking care of so many tanks and fish that time is not at a premium for him as it is for me and cost also plays a big part. I salute him for his immense dedication. Which by the way if I may suggest thebiggerthebetter you might try if you have the time making gelatin cubes. It seems some people who keep large fish find them useful. It would allow you if possible to mix things like shrimp, fish and possibly nightcrawlers as well as pellets if it's cost effective in every cube. If you have the time you'd be able to premake food cubes and have portions sorted that would be ready to drop in and would hopefully cover all their needs.

 

[HarleyK]

Thank you both for the very thoughtful responses. Much obliged.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Update on the survivor: