A new start for my main tank?

[jjohnwm]

I am accused by some of aiding and abetting irresponsible fish choosing and keeping.

Lol, yeah, you're definitely an enabler...

If you do things the "wrong" way...you're irresponsible. If you do things the "right" way, you're enabling those who don't by giving them an escape hatch. Either way, you are offending the nosy, bitter, unhappy people whose main goal in life is to drag everyone else down to their level.

You're probably familiar with their motto: We're not happy till you're not happy!

 

[Backfromthedead]

I rank goldfish higher than a lot of the "monster" fish types and barbs/cyprinids probably my personal favorite type of aquarium fish. The constant activity is the best thing and instead of bloody brawls like with other fish you get more or less aggressive cuddling with most cyprinids.

A small outdoor pond filled with shubunkin has always been on my wish list but fir now i have my balas which i tend to think of as shiny, hyperactive goldfish lol.

 

[jjohnwm]

Lol, "aggressive cuddling"...I love it! I completely agree about the lack of aggression. I want to relax when I sit and watch my fish; I want my blood pressure falling, not rising. Most cichlids need not apply. I can't abide what I have come to think of as a FINWIN tank. (No offense intended!)

Gotta admit, I feel I am displaying a certain level of hypocrisy here. I don't like hate detest abhor most types of man-made "designer" fish or other critters. Hybrids, short-bodies, long-fins, decorator colours...pretty much all of them. A naturally-occurring oddball like an albino is sometimes kind of acceptable, but in general I want plain-Jane garden-variety wild type fish...and dogs that look like dogs...and cats that look like cats...

How can I look at a Goldfish and not see it for what it is, i.e. a weird-ass mutt? I still won't consider the "fancy" varieties...fish that can't see because of their head growths, or swim because of their distorted bodies and/or missing fins, or even move around without endangering some disgusting pus-filled sac hanging under their eyes. Those are the worst of the worse, IMHO. But a Common or even a Comet Goldfish, for whatever reason...makes me smile. And who knows? Maybe, just maybe, if I come across a Shubunkin or two in the LFS...I will actually buy them!

Just for the record...I am not completely going over to the Dark Side. In that outdoor pond where they now reside, there is among those orange fish a single bronzy "natural" colour Goldfish as well...and I still get a little thrill when I catch sight of him.

 

[Trouser Cough]

Some day I will have koi. I'm not sure when and I'm not sure why but the thought has always been rattling around in the back of my head. I've had many comets and a few other goldfish of one kind or another. I've had a couple thousand Fat Head / Rosy Reds at a time. They'll hit 5-6" and communicate via some sort of hormone dump or similar that's interesting to watch.

The goldfish eventually went to a buddy that has a several thousand gallon marine tank w/ a grouper, morays and others that enjoy some seriously aggressive cuddling w/ an occasional goldfish.

Koi though. I've never sated that bug.

I've also thought about an outdoor tank and even built a moat around a part of my house specifically for that about 20 years ago but noop. Lots of bear here and now it's full of plants.

Sure would like to see your outdoor setup though. Might try something like that someday.

 

[jjohnwm]

Sure like to see your outdoor setup though. Might try something like that someday.

Not much to see, I'm afraid...and even less when I'm the one taking the pics.

Here's a few that I found on my phone, taken over the last few years and showing the pond at different stages in its maturation. Some cloudy or green water back in the first few years, but that's a thing of the past. No filtration or circulation whatsoever; not even any fish until at least the third summer. A single annual water change, done in the summer by the simple expedient of pumping the pond dry as soon as this is possible, and then refilling it using snowmelt water which...as can be seen in some of the pics...is pretty abundant on my lawn in the spring. Plenty of tannin staining, both from the driftwood that I soak/waterlog in the pond and also from fallen leaves, etc.

The only plants I purchased for this pond were the one or two Papyrus that I put in during spring, and a lovely water lily that flourished and grew for several years, was subdivided, grew some more, divided again...and then mysteriously failed to appear from any of the pots containing its tubers this past spring. I'll be getting a couple more next year. Everything else either was transplanted to the pond from a natural pond on my property, or simply appeared on its own.

 

[jjohnwm]

Today:



The original plan was for this to be a naturalistic pond without fish; I love sitting next to it and watching the bugs and frogs and other riff-raff living in it. Now that I have learned what a marvelous mosquito-control device small fish in a pond are, I think I will always have some in here.

Currently toying with the notion of excavating and building a much larger pond for fish; not going to say that it's happening "soon" or "next year" or whatever, because we all know how those threads seem to go...

 

[Trouser Cough]

...not going to say that it's happening "soon" or "next year" or whatever, because we all know how those threads seem to go...

No kidding! The coolest ideas rattling around in your head become terrible ideas once they turn into an obligation.

That setup you've built is very cool; thanks for sharing. Do you stock the natural pond? Have you found lawn ferts to pose a problem w/ the natural pond w/ either stock or algae? I'd love to try something like that and may yet but have always been hesitant as ponds seem like they'd be bear magnets in my area. That said, reading this thread reminds me that I can convince myself that a lot of things won't work without knowing it for sure.

I do believe I might take a crack at putting one in myself. Not sure when but it'll happen. Probably.

 

[jjohnwm]

Not sure which pond you are asking about; I call the naturally-occurring pond about a half-klick from my house the "natural" pond. I don't stock that one, but in most years it is flooded into a nearby creek that leads directly into Lake Winnipeg, so it gets an infusion of assorted minnows, carp and catfish that way. I collect water plants there. The backyard pond pictured above usually gets fish only from me...but even there, an occasionally extra-wet spring floods right across that low section of the yard and gives me some free fish. Last year, for example, about 15-20 Central Mudminnows (Umbra) made their way across my lawn and into my little pond. I never saw them, didn't know they were there until fall when I drained it...but they devoured about 95% of my Rosy Red colony. I've even had a smallish (20-inch) Northern Pike caught while it rocketed across the flooded yard heading for the pond; he wound up wrapped in tinfoil on the barbecue.

I don't worry about fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides or any other -cides because I never use any, and the old gent we purchased from didn't either. My pond is about 200 yards from the road, about 400 yards from the property lines on either side and much further to the back. I can use water, soil, gravel, whatever else I want with impunity. I can and do also feed my critters with bugs and worms collected on site.

We have our fair share of bears (black only) as well. I had a DIY above-ground pond destroyed by one, apparently just for gits'n'shiggles. I also lost a bunch of fish a couple years back when a bear clambered into a stock tank, took a bath, had a monstrous dump and then wandered off. After that disaster, and especially in fall, it's not uncommon for me to bail out the back door, sometimes in my "undercrackers", as Exos would say, equipped with a can of bear spray in my left hand and a 12-gauge in my right. Have used the spray a few times (very effective!) and never needed the shotgun for defense so far.

Set up some spotlights around the pond, equipped with motion sensors, and maybe a radio or siren or something to alert you indoors. Most critters are already gone by the time you look outside.

 

[jjohnwm]

As summer winds down, all my outdoor fish have been moved back inside except for the goldfish in the inground pond. I began the process of collecting them a couple days ago, simply because catching the fish out of that pond always seems to take forever. This year is no exception.

My big home-made minnow trap has produced exactly zero of the desired results; not once have any of the original goldies, now all in the 5-6 inch size range, shown any interest in entering. I have been going out after dark with a headlamp and a couple of long-handled dip nets and have managed to snag 5 of the 22 large ones; they are a bit dazzled by the bright beam of the headlamp and usually can be netted without much fuss. I am quite amazed at the difference in colour between the sickly waifs in the "feeder" tank at the LFS...and the magnificent orange beasts in that pond. Natural sunlight? Diet? Don't know, but...wow!

Inside, the first of them look terrific. After acclimating them to the indoor water temperature, which is only a few degrees off from the outside pond temp, they are gliding placidly about in the tank and they already provide the peaceful look and "vibe" for which I was hoping. I am becoming a goldfish convert...

...except for one thing...

The outdoor pond has water that is tannin-stained but clear. There are luxurious growths of hornwort, guppy grass and many native emergent plants, along with driftwood and rocks. Seen from above, the big, brilliantly-coloured goldies are impressive and eye-catching. But...less visible are the hundreds of baby goldfish that have somehow appeared in the pond! A net run through the hornwort thickets will always produce a half-dozen or so, ranging from about a half-inch to 1.5 inches in length. I am embarrassed to admit that I did not realize young goldfish don't seem to develop their orange colouration until they are at least an inch or more in length, which makes them pretty inconspicuous especially when viewed from above.

So...my C.dimerus cichlids have eaten spawn after spawn after spawn of their young. My Xenotoca livebearers were wiped out by polluted water after a couple of birds drowned and decomposed in their stock tank. Even my wonderful little Heterndria colony grows pretty slowly, largely as a result of predation by aquatic insects called Backswimmers.

But only a few weeks after grudgingly admitting that I kind of liked goldfish and finally wanted to devote some time and tank space to them...I find myself in possession of hundreds of them!

As I stood next to the pond, with a bucket of a hundred or so youngsters at my feet, I wondered out loud where they all were coming from. My wife, helpful as always, began "Well, when a boy goldfish and a girl goldfish love each other very much..."

 

[duanes]

I have kept a lot of temperate water cichlids in ponds over the years, but the reality is they are barely ever seen,

Except maybe Australoheros in spawning dress (sometimes).
Gymnogeophagus, only if the sun is right.

But koi and goldfish are about the only ones I can realistally see, if seeing fish from above is the intention.
I used to keep koi and golds in Milwaukee, but even had to bring them in for the winter, where 4 ft ponds would freeze solid to the bottom.