Rookie Mistake - Help?

[Heck]

Was able to get to the LFS and pick up Ich X. By this morning, both Mystus had lesions. I did a big water change, since I had been using a different med and water changes seem like a good idea regardless. Dosed the Ich X, and lost one of the Mystus shortly after. I feel like I'm damned if I medicate, damned if I don't.

I can't even tell which one it is who died - they look pretty different dead. I guess it doesn't matter.

I'm puzzled because everything I've read says Ich shouldn't kill healthy fish rapidly like this, and as far as I can tell, they seemed pretty healthy. My water had been holding steady at 0/0/10-15 for a while, and there were no signs of problems until the ich hit.

I'm feeling pretty defeated. These poor fish. I'm such a novice I probably should have stuck to bettas, but I've been trying pretty hard - I just went and got them a 125 gallon. I wanted them to be happy.

 

[Heck]

Blackie lives! And looks a little better already. I think switching to the Ich X (as I was instructed by those who know better than I do) was important, and after this ordeal wraps up, I'll make sure to keep a few days worth on hand just in case - since no one local stocks it and Amazon won't deliver it quickly, I'll feel better having it in case I have another outbreak and can't drive an hour to the LFS right away.

I don't want to get my hopes up just yet, but Blackie is by far my favorite fish. Feels mean saying it but if I'd been able to choose one survivor it would have been him - and there's still hope.

I know that Mystus Leucophasis are violent and territorial fish, but I can't help worrying that Blackie is lonely - I know I'm anthropomorphizing but I can't help it.

For now I'm just going to keep treating as directed and see what happens. I really hope Blackie makes it.

 

[Heck]

Blackie died overnight. I'm still kind of shocked because everything I read seemed to say that Ich, when treated, shouldn't wipe out a whole tank like that. Ammonia and nitrites stayed at 0 through the whole thing. Maybe I did something else to make them weak and susceptible to disease, maybe it was just stress from the move and inconsistent temperature.

I'm feeling really defeated, like I'm a bad fishkeeper who shouldn't have fish, but...

* My other tank, with synodontis nigriventris and hara jerdoni, is doing fine. It's a little boring and I want to move them to my 55 gallon tank (which is currently soaking outside and I think I'm going to salt the hell out of it today, scrub it with bleach tomorrow, and then let it dry in the sun for a few days in case the Ich started there), and add a bunch of new hides and decor for visual interest, and then add some small schooling fish - galaxy rasboras? Guppies? Idk. I'm scared to change *anything* for fear of stress kicking off another outbreak, but it seems dumb to leave them in the 29 forever when I have a 55 gallon tank sitting right there. I have been really good about not sharing tools between tanks, so disease in one shouldn't mean disease in the whole house, but I could slip up - or they could also already have Ich and just be waiting for a big stress event, like moving tanks, to get sick

* As much as I want to quit entirely, Mr. Heck says he didn't do all that work to help me clean and set up the 125 for it to just sit there empty.

* The last time I was at the LFS, a nice young lady was helping a woman buy a few fish and I heard her saying things like, "unfortunately, that fish needs salt water, so it won't work in your tank," and "I don't think you should add a pleco right now, why don't you start with what you have now and see how it goes, and come back in a few weeks and we'll pick a pleco then?" - so I'm reminded that I'm not the only one who is clueless, and maybe the fish are better off with someone who at least knows the difference between saltwater and freshwater fish (me) than hanging out at the store waiting to go home with that lady.

I think I want another mystus. I'll have to figure out what else I might add to the tank that won't become mystus food, but I have time since I need to keep treating the tank for a while.

 

[thiswasgone]

Blackie died overnight. I'm still kind of shocked because everything I read seemed to say that Ich, when treated, shouldn't wipe out a whole tank like that. Ammonia and nitrites stayed at 0 through the whole thing. Maybe I did something else to make them weak and susceptible to disease, maybe it was just stress from the move and inconsistent temperature.

I'm feeling really defeated, like I'm a bad fishkeeper who shouldn't have fish, but...

* My other tank, with synodontis nigriventris and hara jerdoni, is doing fine. It's a little boring and I want to move them to my 55 gallon tank (which is currently soaking outside and I think I'm going to salt the hell out of it today, scrub it with bleach tomorrow, and then let it dry in the sun for a few days in case the Ich started there), and add a bunch of new hides and decor for visual interest, and then add some small schooling fish - galaxy rasboras? Guppies? Idk. I'm scared to change *anything* for fear of stress kicking off another outbreak, but it seems dumb to leave them in the 29 forever when I have a 55 gallon tank sitting right there. I have been really good about not sharing tools between tanks, so disease in one shouldn't mean disease in the whole house, but I could slip up - or they could also already have Ich and just be waiting for a big stress event, like moving tanks, to get sick

* As much as I want to quit entirely, Mr. Heck says he didn't do all that work to help me clean and set up the 125 for it to just sit there empty.

* The last time I was at the LFS, a nice young lady was helping a woman buy a few fish and I heard her saying things like, "unfortunately, that fish needs salt water, so it won't work in your tank," and "I don't think you should add a pleco right now, why don't you start with what you have now and see how it goes, and come back in a few weeks and we'll pick a pleco then?" - so I'm reminded that I'm not the only one who is clueless, and maybe the fish are better off with someone who at least knows the difference between saltwater and freshwater fish (me) than hanging out at the store waiting to go home with that lady.

I think I want another mystus. I'll have to figure out what else I might add to the tank that won't become mystus food, but I have time since I need to keep treating the tank for a while.

Hmm my only other guess is that either your infected fish were being harassed when you weren't present and/or they also had other internal diseases. Like you said ich by itself is a fairly slow killer until it develops to the point your fish look like they have snow dusted all over them. It is also possible that this species of catfish is highly sensitive, but I have no experience with this species (i've only raised TSN in the past) so I can't say for certain it was due to sensitivity issues.

 

[Heck]

Hmm my only other guess is that either your infected fish were being harassed when you weren't present and/or they also had other internal diseases. Like you said ich by itself is a fairly slow killer until it develops to the point your fish look like they have snow dusted all over them. It is also possible that this species of catfish is highly sensitive, but I have no experience with this species (i've only raised TSN in the past) so I can't say for certain it was due to sensitivity issues.

There could absolutely have been overnight harassment, but Blackie (who had started looking better yesterday) was the last fish in the tank, and no signs of bullying on him (or anyone else, although I know that's not proof) - fins and barbels were intact, etc. Another, simultaneous infection is certainly possible. It's frustrating to not know, because without more information it's hard to avoid repeating mistakes.

I definitely want another mystus leucophasis. It's hard to learn how to care for them, since it seems like people tend to dislike them and either not get them in the first place or not keep them long - thebiggerthebetter does have experience and has been very helpful. My LFS doesn't stock them routinely (the ones I had were supposed to be synodontis nigriventris - it was a surprise to the LFS, too, not just me!) but they've told me in the past that they can order what I want, which I prefer over buying online. If they were infected when I got them, they'll come through the same store as before, so there's always a risk - but it's not like buying online would guarantee health either. Sigh.

And on top of everything else, rotten luck in the horse farming business lately as well. Animals are hard - I should have taken up ballet instead.

 

[Heck]

Hmm my only other guess is that either your infected fish were being harassed when you weren't present and/or they also had other internal diseases. Like you said ich by itself is a fairly slow killer until it develops to the point your fish look like they have snow dusted all over them. It is also possible that this species of catfish is highly sensitive, but I have no experience with this species (i've only raised TSN in the past) so I can't say for certain it was due to sensitivity issues.

Is this an Ich theront? Sorry I couldn't get better pics - little jerk kept swimming away.

 

[thiswasgone]

Is this an Ich theront? Sorry I couldn't get better pics - little jerk kept swimming away.

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Hmm, it's unlikely since free swimming Ich theront are usually rice shaped where they are longer then they are wide. Additionally, they are very small typically 30-40 μm long and 10 μm wide.

 

[Heck]

Hmm, it's unlikely since free swimming Ich theront are usually rice shaped where they are longer then they are wide. Additionally, they are very small typically 30-40 μm long and 10 μm wide.

Thank you so much! Can I ask how you know all this?

I really need to quit trying to find answers in the microscope - I am making myself crazy, and it's not going to speed up the process of making my tank safe again.

Here are some videos of other things I found when I could have been doing something productive instead:

I syringed water off the glass, substrate, and driftwood, and centrifuged it down to try to get a concentration of "stuff" on the slide - and I did indeed see stuff.

 

[thiswasgone]

Back when I was younger in my HS/early college years I had a lot of free time to browser and study up on fish keeping and be very meticulous on how I raised my fish. Of course I don't remember the size of of every microorganism at the top of my head, especially the size of an ich theront, but I do know the general basics of microbiology and more specifically I recall the general information of beneficial and non-beneficial lifeforms. Thus, while I might not remember/know the specifics of what I'm seeing at the top of my head I remember the general tree of life for common freshwater microorganisms which allows me to narrow my online searches.

I'm unsure of what species this is in the 1st video but it looks to be some sort of euglenoid based on movement, shape, and color; maybe a species within the genus Euglena sp?

The 2nd video shows I believe another euglenoid and I believe a large green algae probably within the genus of Volvox sp.

The 3rd and 4th video (I believe a repeat) is hard to identify. It looks like a fluke but the tell-tale markers are not obvious. The shape is reminescent of a leech but there are no microscopic "leech" (in terms microscopic worms in how we view the word in the macro sense) AFAIK. All I can say for certain is that it's a type of microscopic worm but I would need better footage to make a more accurate guess.

Do note that while viewing the microworld is fun and frustrating it is very challenging to ID species 100% without easy access to DNA squencers. Even all my guesses are at best 70-90% as many organisms look and behave very similar (to an untrained eye) under most microscope. You need very expensive equipment and reagents/dyes to get the best quality videos and even then there are a vast number of look alike species. It's best to use it as a tool for confirmation outside of making microbology a hobby.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Wow, a lot happened since I had been here. Very sorry to hear of the losses. I need to find time to read the posts carefully before I'd attempt to say something half meaningful. Just a few knee jerks:

What's an ich lesion? Ich starts out and remain looking pretty easy to ID to a naked eye. I associate lesions with a bacterial infection, which may occur secondary to ich, after ich has been observed for a while.

Is your pH stable? What is your KH carbonate hardness, which buffers the pH from sudden and big swings?

Has the start of trouble coincided not only with the pictus, but with the introduction of that unknown driftwood centerpiece?