4300 Gallon Plywood Build (3600+ Take 2)

[nolapete]

KenC56 - I'd have to get another gas connection put in and I don't think those heaters can be run indoors. The electric versions are too expensive to run.

cv - I'm not going to use any kind of electric heater and no they won't be the most energy efficient. Electric heaters are expensive to run no matter what the type. Gas vs. electricity is probably factor of 3.5 - 4. I have the heating worked out. I just need to figure out what to do with the water after it exits the pex and locate either two thermostats or one thermostat with the ability to control two probes.

 

[nolapete]

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193244&highlight=thefishguy&page=23

For heating check out thread #227 on this DIY, it seems to be just like what your talking about with the gas hot water heater. This guy has his tank in the basement and he lives in Ohio or somewhere cold? You might not have to go to this extreme but it's most likely the cheapest way to heat a large body of water.

That's where I got the idea to use the pex coil to heat the tank. It's gone full circle since I may be able to return the water to the hot water heater like he's doing.

 

[Open Water Predator]

If the simplest solution is also the most expensive or least effective it isn't really the 'best' solution.

Okay. If it isn't effective it could hardly be considered a solution. Given two solutions solve a problem, in this case heating/maintaining a set temp, the simpler one is almost always the better option. I mentioned this in regards to the proposed 2-solenoid system; which was unnecessary. Thanks.

 

[cvermeulen]

Okay. If it isn't effective it could hardly be considered a solution. Given two solutions solve a problem, in this case heating/maintaining a set temp, the simpler one is almost always the better option. I mentioned this in regards to the proposed 2-solenoid system; which was unnecessary. Thanks.

I have irked another with my semantics! Let's not derail the thread over this, my point was simply that the simplest solution is not always the best one. Though in general, simplicity is a good thing to gun for.

 

[nolapete]

The simplest solution would be to install titanium heaters in the tank and plug them in. This isn't a viable solution because the electricity cost to run them and the initial cost.

If we use a very conservative 1 watt per gallon (generally recommendations are 2.5-5 depending on the room temp stability), here's the breakdown of how much it would just cost to buy the titanium heaters and controllers required.

6 x 41.35 for 800 watt titanium Finnex heater
6 x 25.10 for temperature controller for each heater

6 x 66.45 = 398.70 plus shipping

That's just the cost of buying the heaters. Add to that operation costs and you're off the charts of ridiculous electric bill.

 

[cvermeulen]

cv - I'm not going to use any kind of electric heater and no they won't be the most energy efficient. Electric heaters are expensive to run no matter what the type. Gas vs. electricity is probably factor of 3.5 - 4. I have the heating worked out. I just need to figure out what to do with the water after it exits the pex and locate either two thermostats or one thermostat with the ability to control two probes.

You and I are using these words to describe two different things. I will say it again, the in tank heater will be the most energy efficient way to do it. The problem you've raised is that electric energy is more expensive than gas energy, which is very valid. But we're off topic I suppose as you've already figured it out.

I was asking for the numbers so I could actually do the math on it. What I was getting at is that with every 'step' the thermal energy has to go through, some of it escapes. With a gas heater a bunch of it goes out as exhaust, some of it escapes instead of being transferred directly to the water, some of it goes down the drain, blah blah blah. If you really want to split hairs and work out the cheapest way - you have to consider all that. With an electric in tank heater, 100% of the energy consumed goes to heating the water.

Anyway, again, all just discussion. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[cvermeulen]

1 watt per gallon is recommended heater capacity (not average consumption) and generally only applies to smaller tanks (greater surface area to volume ratio) I bet you could heat this thing to 85 with 1500w of heaters, it would just take a long time to get there.

I'm interested to see what your hot water heater setup costs when you're done with all the fiddling. I remain skeptical, but hoping to be impressed

 

[nolapete]

Ordering initial test gallon of liquid rubber as Permadri recommended to me to be certain it will work with the materials I used to build the tank. I'm sure it will, but you never know. It should be enough to finish out the window framing and cut in all the seams. I want to cut the seams in first with several coats before doing the rest of the tank for added strength.

 

[Griller]

What is the weather like in LA? Have you considered adding a solar pool heater to reduce running costs?

Here is a DIY system for $375
http://www.affordablepools.com.au/myweb/solar_kits.html

You will still need another heater for days without warm sun but this could take the pressure off your bill.

 

[greengiant]

I don't have time at the moment to readd thoroughly all the posts but I skimmed over and will read them more later this week but here is my thought. from your existing HW tank run a line with a pump and solenoid valve to a Water-Water heat exchanger. then back to the hot water tank. from here you can do 2 things run it after your filters and run your tank water through the exchanger and back to the tank. with the thermostat in the tank it should work well and be the most efficient way to heat. or run a second closed circuit from the heat exchanger then run your pex coil in the bottom of the tank. the more heat exchange you have the less efficient though. there are also hot water tanks that have built in w/w exchangers in them to be used as floor heat and you can also use this to heat the tank. with a simple circ pump and solenoid switch. hope that helps I will read all the new posts when I have a moment but don't have time tonight and if someone already suggested this then sorry to repeat. good luck I have been subscribed for a while and love the build keep it up!!!