96 x 30 x 24 Tank and Arowana Species

[twentyleagues]

You can see what you see but I am pretty sure overcrowding of tank does not only applies to asia countries.

If you had noticed, I used the word not ideal. Its TS harping about you saying it can't be done, not me lol

For me, it will depends on the temperament of the aro over time.

If you have a very aggressive aro even 30" or 40" may not be enough. Vice versa for a docile aro.

The reason I decided not to reply twentyleagues is simple, in his mind he has formed an opinion on what an aro requires and how an aro behaves and there is no way to change it unless he is able to own one and experience it himself. It has nothing to do with qualifications.

For dietary requirements, it is based on the TS is able to provide what the aro requires, similar to his decision to go for 300g as his first tank, that he will be able to maintain it.

Not sure what's wrong with aro dictating what food it wants. Just give the aro what he wants, if pellets are required for more nutrition just gutload the live food or if frozen food then put the pellets into the frozen food. Why is there a fixation on feeding only pellets.

And beside the difficulty of converting it to a food of the owner's choice( which I already mentioned and quoted by you)and water change, both of which applies to all fishes.

What other traits or requirements, aka drama queens, it exhibits that make them more difficult to rear as compared to all other tropical fishes.

I know all fish are different. Not all fall under the exact details of the other. And I never said it would never nor has never worked. I said tend to be this way and are better left to people with some experience.
Can you really in good conscience say to the op that you Zugs are ready for an Asian arowana in a 300g community setting? Remember he has never kept a fish before ever. Is this really the best recommendation from you?

I would appreciate an honest answer. And you know where I'm coming from, just because I havent kept an arowana doesnt mean im stupid. You dont have to keep a arowana to realize that that fish requires advanced care and precautions from someone with at least a little experience.

 

[RD.]

Ya I agree it was stupid.. I cant disagree there, I should have known better...hell I was even told by you not to mess with the current setup lol
the jar wasnt my own purchase and I didnt get an idea from youtube, it was a freind who had bought him thinking it could fit in a 90 gallon till he got a bigger tank like I had mentioned in the thread... I figured it may work in my 210 for a while... obviously it didnt so it's now rehomed and I had the loss of life not my freind.
I just tried to help out thinking my tank would have a better chance of holding it than his 90 with an oscar picking on it so Imo i did what i thought was right at the time.. again it's an experience I've been put through and learned from and may be able to pass on to others even though there will always be someone to disagree... I know a comm tank is complicated.... and it CAN work with species that dont always fit the bill and I dont beleive every youtube video posted is just captured in the right moment to fool the audience although that probably does happen from time to time..
Also just to note I am not one to get butthurt over a bit of back and forth debate so pls never take anything I say as insult... I think this thread has actually been a learning experience for more than just the OP but as a noob aquariest it must be confusing as all hell... there has been so many disagreements here it's not even funny... maybe OP should just create a bran new thread once he gets his tank ... one thread where he can ask one question at a time lol

All good amigo, I don't get hurt feelings either, unless you make fun of my BP like Duane & Viktor have. lol

I don't know what has been posted in all the other OP's numerous threads, I haven't read any of them, but having just re-read this one, it seems like a number of us that have all been around for a fair number of years are all basically saying the same thing.

Except maybe one …...

If you had noticed, I used the word not ideal

I had noticed, and actually mentioned just that.

Even Galantz has stated that a 24" tall tank is not ideal for a comm tank, only that he has seen it done.

You can see what you see but I am pretty sure overcrowding of tank does not only applies to asia countries.

I understand that there are other forums, and other hobbyists that would disagree regarding size/space/comm tanks, but I never was a fan of crowding fish, or JDM style tanks. A past associate of mine grew up in Singapore, so I understand that size/living limitations are far different in parts of Asia, vs North America, so I get how and why tanks are not as large as what one typically sees the same fish in, in North America. That's just a plain simple fact. The difference is that in Asia it often involves much bigger species of fish. Are there overcrowded tanks here in NA, of course! In fact, one of the most repeated topics I have seen over many years of being on MFK, start like this: "What is the minimum sized tank I need for (fill in the blank)"

Nobody asks what is the most ideal, or best tank size for xyz species. Why is that you think? Are they thinking about the fish, or themselves? Hmmmmmm.

In all honesty I didn't even overly care for my friends aro comm tank, just not my cup of tea, and he knew that. It was still damn impressive when standing right in front of it, it just wasn't my thing.

Not sure what's wrong with aro dictating what food it wants. Just give the aro what he wants, if pellets are required for more nutrition just gutload the live food or if frozen food then put the pellets into the frozen food. Why is there a fixation on feeding only pellets.

Nothing is wrong with that, and there is no fixation on my part in feeding anything, including pellets. If you had noticed different type of pellets was Zugs solution to feeding both aro & SD's. I guess you missed that? You might want to go back & read what was actually stated regarding diet, by Zugs, and myself. I was responding to his previous comments regarding pellets AND dietary differences.

What other traits or requirements, aka drama queens, it exhibits that make them more difficult to rear as compared to all other tropical fishes.

I said …….

There are many things that one has to be prepared for when keeping an Asian aro, dietary challenges is just one of them.

For one, they are very serious powerful jumpers, even when young. My friend latched/locked his tanks lids down to prevent escape, the other friend had his wife construct miniature sand bags to weigh the lids down, even on all of his numerous 120 gallon tanks that held juvenile fish. Not exactly a requirement for the average tropical fish. lol

What other fish in this hobby is prone to drop eye, PLJ, gill curl, chipped (infected) scales? I have seen it all, and helped my friends deal with it all, including gill curl surgery. And what does one of the farms owned by Qian Hu corporation state regarding chipped scales?

https://www.yihufish.com/fishkeeping-articles/arowana/common-arowana-diseases/

1. Maintain good water parameters and tank cleanliness. Remove uneaten food, conduct regular water changes and do not overstock your tank.
2. Minimize handling and choose compatible tank mates to minimize risk of physical wounds and stress factors.

Wow, what a surprise. I guess one has to understand stress, to recognize it. Using Joey's recent aro jumping event, if I was to take a guess I would say that in the night the GG spooked the aro, which caused the aro to take flight. It only has to happen once.

And under Gill Curl.

Arowana in the growth stage requires not only good nutrition but also sufficient space to for their healthy development. A cramped space will affect the normal functioning of the gills and over time, will cause the gill flaps to turn.

Well imagine that, go figure. The aro that we operated on came in from the farm with slight curl, and we trimmed before that fish went up for sale to a retail store, at a reduced price. I actually just met the person that purchased that fish several yrs ago, last weekend. Apparently the gill curl returned down the road.

Off the top of my head, I don't recall ever seeing chipped infected scales, gill curl, drop eye, or PLJ, outside of aro circles.These are not commonly seen issues with the vast majority of tropical fish, at least none of the numerous species of fish that I have owned over the years.

So I will disagree with your assertion that they are no more difficult to rear, compared to all other tropical fish.

....just because I havent kept an arowana doesnt mean im stupid. You dont have to keep a arowana to realize that that fish requires advanced care and precautions from someone with at least a little experience.

Exactly.

I don't think that good advice to someone new to this hobby is;

You just have to be prepared to lose money, I.e dead expensive fish

And in the next breath, tell them that 24" high tank is not ideal for a comm tank, but it's doable because you have seen it done. Read between the lines here a bit, sheesh.


Like I said earlier, the OP is probably going to ultimately do whatever he wants regardless of the numerous warnings & suggestions given, so I'm not going to lose any sleep over this one way or the other. His money, his fish, whatever.

 

[Galantspeedz]

I know all fish are different. Not all fall under the exact details of the other. And I never said it would never nor has never worked. I said tend to be this way and are better left to people with some experience.
Can you really in good conscience say to the op that you Zugs are ready for an Asian arowana in a 300g community setting? Remember he has never kept a fish before ever. Is this really the best recommendation from you?

I would appreciate an honest answer. And you know where I'm coming from, just because I havent kept an arowana doesnt mean im stupid. You dont have to keep a arowana to realize that that fish requires advanced care and precautions from someone with at least a little experience.

Honest answer? Then I hope you believe what I say.

I am not sure if he is ready for an AA , in fact I am not even sure if he is ready for fish keeping. But will I recommend him to keep other fish rather than an arowana? No I won't. Because that is what he wants to keep and he has ordered a tank, which is my opinion, would be sufficient for its whole life

I don't see the point to advise otherwise

And i would give him credit with starting with a 300g for the aro rather than a 75g.

 

[Galantspeedz]

@RD.

Too long a reply to quote so I try to reply to what I can

Qianhu says do not overstock tank, choose compatible tankmates and give sufficient space.

Wouldn't that applies to all fishes except maybe african cichlids?

Sure arowana are powerful jumpers, something the TS can prevent with heavy glass lids. How hard is it to get his tank maker to do it, considering he already ordered a 300g. In fact, I be surprised that the glass lids are not included.

Drop eye and PLJ are more of cosmetics issues, nothing to do with looking after arowana no?

Infected scales and gill curl, aren't this caused by bad water parameters and could be avoided with proper maintenance?

And regards to gill curl due to tank space. Since you quoted qianhu, Did you try their stocking calculator?

Based on TS dimensions, it is about 1134 litres, after taking into account decorations, tank not filled to brim, etc. Let's assume tank volume is 1000 litres. The stocking calculator threw out a results of 333cm worth of arowana. Even if we assume a full grown adult is 2ft, aka 60cm. You can stock 5 arowana with a bit left to spare.


We can agree to disagree on how much difference in care does an arowana requires as compared with other fishes.

 

[twentyleagues]

Honest answer? Then I hope you believe what I say.

I am not sure if he is ready for an AA , in fact I am not even sure if he is ready for fish keeping. But will I recommend him to keep other fish rather than an arowana? No I won't. Because that is what he wants to keep and he has ordered a tank, which is my opinion, would be sufficient for its whole life

I don't see the point to advise otherwise

And i would give him credit with starting with a 300g for the aro rather than a 75g.

I never said to put the arowana in a 75. I said get a fish of appropriate size for a 75 to "learn" on. And or if he was going with ads. Yea if dead set on keeping an arowana then the 300 will be the best size. Of coarse I believe you why wouldnt I? I dont understand it though.
So you dont think you should give tell someone who is so obviously in over their heads that they should "practice" first? Do you believe that his arowana would survive and or thrive? You dont think we should try and dissuade those obviously not ready for such an animal for both their sake and its?

 

[RD.]

Perfect, a Chinese fish calculator. Lol Yeah man, we will have to agree to disagree. Btw bad water parameters is only one potential cause of chipped scales, and gill curl. I can assure you that I have also seen it develop due to what appeared to be 100% stress related, which coincidently was with aros in comm tanks, where no other aros were present. They just didn’t like their tank mates. The water quality was pristine.

Drop eye may be cosmetic, but I would suspect that it also would cause a fish stress due to the abnormal focal point being downwards. I know that it would cause me stress staring down at my feet all the time.

But again, agree to disagree. I suspect that our fish keeping methods and ideals are worlds apart.

 

[Nilsafeller]

All good amigo, I don't get hurt feelings either, unless you make fun of my BP like Duane & Viktor have.

LOL! I like your BP brother dont listen to the haters ?

 

[Galantspeedz]

I never said to put the arowana in a 75. I said get a fish of appropriate size for a 75 to "learn" on. And or if he was going with ads. Yea if dead set on keeping an arowana then the 300 will be the best size. Of coarse I believe you why wouldnt I? I dont understand it though.
So you dont think you should give tell someone who is so obviously in over their heads that they should "practice" first? Do you believe that his arowana would survive and or thrive? You dont think we should try and dissuade those obviously not ready for such an animal for both their sake and its?

So if the arowana won't survive or thrive, which fish do you recommend TS to rear that you are so very sure will survive or thrive?

So by practicing with other fish first, you are saying other fishes lives are lesser than an arowana?

Get my point?

 

[Galantspeedz]

Perfect, a Chinese fish calculator. Lol Yeah man, we will have to agree to disagree. Btw bad water parameters is only one potential cause of chipped scales, and gill curl. I can assure you that I have also seen it develop due to what appeared to be 100% stress related, which coincidently was with aros in comm tanks, where no other aros were present. They just didn’t like their tank mates. The water quality was pristine.

Drop eye may be cosmetic, but I would suspect that it also would cause a fish stress due to the abnormal focal point being downwards. I know that it would cause me stress staring down at my feet all the time.

But again, agree to disagree. I suspect that our fish keeping methods and ideals are worlds apart.

What chinese calculator ?

You quoted qianhu and so kindly highlighted issues about tank space and so I gave you a qianhu fish stocking calculator... for a fair comparison

you know why you quoted qianhu and I am pretty sure it's not because its chinese.

So you are saying only arowana gets stress?

I don't think our fishkeeping methods are worlds apart , after we both use water lol

But I prefer not to overthink things


Cheers

 

[The-Almighty-Zugs]

Okay I have a few more points to make because I think I'm finally seeing the whole picture here. I am thinking that there are three groups of people chiming in on this thread. Two of these groups have kept Asian Arowana and one has not. Now this is just my way of thinking and I'm not suggesting someone is lesser than anyone, nor am I saying that these groups actually exist. I'm just trying to interpret what I have been hearing and organize it efficiently. Because there are obvious patterns and correlations in what information people are giving me, the attitude people give this information to me in and the overall demeanor of these individuals as a whole.

The first group is what I call the "Veteran Arowana Keepers". The ones that have been around the block. The ones that have tried many ways of doing things and have narrowed down what actually matters and what is just talk in the hobby. The second are the "Competent Arowana Keepers". Individuals who have kept Arowana for years but are still caught up with the differences of what works for them and what works in general. To the point where they may still be stuck in their ways and not willing to see another point of view. As if it works for them, it must be the answer. And the third is what I call the "Second Hand Arowana Non-Keepers". Individuals who have done their research and are basing their advice on the experience of others while not having kept an Arowana before.

I am getting a lot of different advice from people from all sides. But they all seem to share some similarities between one another. This is why I have grouped them as I have. Some people will laugh at this and that's fine. But it seems like the Veteran Arowana Keepers say one thing and the Competent Arowana Keepers say another. The VAK's understand where the CAK's (I just know I'm going to get a lot of crap for these acronyms) are coming from and provide reasoning behind why they feel they are incorrect. The CAK's get upset and do not wish to provide their reasoning to why they do the things they do and so it leads to turmoil between everyone. And arguments ensue. And for the people that just genuinely don't know, it makes their head spin and they don't know who to listen to.

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Now that I have that out of the way I have to say again that I'm not starting out with Arowana. If only for the sole reason that they are expensive and if I make a mistake I will lose an expensive fish not to mention a life. I don't want to do that. I will be doing Silver Dollars probably and then when I feel comfortable I may add an Arowana to the tank. And just to be clear, this is all hypothetical and not to mention FOR THE FUTURE. I haven't made any decisions yet because I am doing my research.

With that being said, I have also been hearing that Arowana are no different than any other fish like [B]Galantspeedz[/B] has said. That it's not this impossible to keep fish that people make it out to be. They are hardy for one and the only thing you have to watch out for is temperament. Each Arowana will be unique and that is where the "difficulty" comes in. Galantspeedz and jaws7777 are not the only ones who has said this either. Maybe they are the only ones here on this thread who have said it but in other places people are saying the same things. I've been talking to a bunch of knowledgeable individuals who have years of experience with a variety of fish including Aros and they have said the exact same things he has been saying. That people are really overthinking things here. I think there is a lot of truth to this.

And towards the height issue people have been pointing out, in the wild I have been told that Asian Arowana live in very shallow waters. They go there to bask etc. Now I know the issue with height is not that it will be housing JUST an Arowana but that the tank could be housing a community. And that there would not be enough space between the fish at the different levels to make the Asian Arowana feel comfortable. Now one thing I find very interesting is some people here have referenced to Joey (King of DIY) keeping Asian Arowana and Silver Dollars together. And how that didn't work. In that specific case he had a tank that was wider than mine but it was only 25 inches tall. So only 1 inch taller than my tank. That's my first point. That tank didn't seem crowded at all mind you but what do I know? Joey had no problem housing them together though so that's something to consider. Sure it was wider but the height was the pretty much the same. Secondly, he specifically said that Silver Dollars and Arowana "SHOULD" work together but in his case it just didn't. He equated that to the personality of HIS Arowana.

Now that to me is a big deal. He kept his Arowana and Silver Dollars in a 25 inch tall tank and no one here has brought that point up. The only reason it didn't work, was not due to space or that an Asian Arowana needs more than 24 inches to feel happy etc, it was because this specific Arowana just didn't get along with the Silver Dollars. Now maybe this could have been a non issue in a taller tank. Maybe. But given the circumstances, I find it hard to believe that raising the height of the tank to 30 or even 40 would alter the way Joey's Arowana interacted with the Silver Dollars. But again, I'm not arguing for anything as I really don't know. I'm just bringing up others points and would love to hear counters to it. This is how we learn.

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Now to the people that are saying I will end up doing what I want no matter what I am told or how much advice I am given, I feel like this attitude is very counter productive, not to mention pessimistic. When I bring up a countering argument, I am not arguing with your points to assert some sort of self confirming bias. What I am doing is bringing up what others have said in order to hear your thoughts on them and to see your counter arguments. I bring up these points to hear everyone's side of things. That is all. I am trying to learn and figure out what I should do.