building a 1000 gal concrete block monster tank

[wizzin]

The design looks good to me, but I was wondering the concretes effect on water parameters.

I was going to seal it with drylok, but after calling ugl and then sanitred, I'm going with sanitred. It will have 2 coats of permaflex on the inside, which is 100% fish safe. They're giving me a discount if they can use the photos of the project on their site.

Here's some more tech specs.

tank dimensions (interior)= 10'long x 4'wide x 4'deep * (it won't be filled to 4' deep)
tank volume = 1,195 USG (again, over what the actual will be)
tank cubic feet = 160
water weight = 9,972.59 lbs (again, over)
tank interior surface area = 151 square feet
psi on walls = 5.50 psi (I don't know where 8000psi came from)

 

[dacox]

I actually wanted to add another 2 cents, and this goes for more than just concrete design. There are an awful lot of folks that tend to want to over engineer things. Over doing things isn't always the best practice, especially when costs are concerned. We could design buildings with 2'-6" thick foundation walls, frame the entire upper floors with 4"x4"s and sliding glass doors out of 1" thick laminated tempered glass too, but it wouldn't make any sense. Yes, it would withstand a direct impact from a 747 at cruising speed, but at what cost?

Building something that won’t implode without spending a small fortune is what I'm trying to achieve here. I'm sure I could up the amount of rebar, use 2 layers of concrete block and cover the entire structure in carbon fiber too, but I don't see the point.

I totally agree. IMO, a little over engineering for projects like this, but there must be a limit. I'm working on a degree in a construction engineering type major, and that is one of the most important lessons that they teach, how to build sound structures while at the same time working to minimize costs.

You've got a good design, and with the reinforcement you're planning on adding, I wouldn't think there would be any problem with your design. I look foreword to seeing it progress.

 

[stoney7713]

First post here but this is exactly what I'm looking for and the reason I'm here. I'm considering doing the same block and mortar style tank, sealed with sanitred. I was thinking it would be much easier then concrete forms.

Can't wait to see this come together

 

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

lol. The corners interlock. Then the core of the cmu is filled with rebar and concrete. See below. I've been in the architecture biz for about 11 years now, and I've never heard tensile strength used to describe characteristics of concrete. Tensile strength is important to metal and a lot of other materials, but not to concrete. In other words, the force required to pull a concrete block apart would be to discuss the shear of the concrete, since it's the bond of the cement and rock failing that you're really talking about.

I've had a structural engineer and 4 architects look at this and they all agreed it's fine.

Furthermore, look at this link. This guy built it out of half the block width I am, didn't have cores to fill and is a little higher than I'm going from the looks of it.

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:tYVfzXKkA5IJ:www.koicarp.org.uk/koi_pond1.htm+concrete+block+pond&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

Thanks for your concern though.

Tensile strength is one of the defining characteristics of concrete, because concrete is very weak in tension. There will be tension in your system because of the nature of the shape. The walls will be pushed out by the weight of the water trying to reach a lower elevation, forces will be zero at the top of the walls and maximum at the bottom. All forces must reach ground to be resisted for the system to be in equilibrium and static (not moving), however consider the load path.... the forces will first be resisted by the walls running in the plane perpindicular to themselves.....

However......... these materials that we use to build our diy tanks are designed to take forces much larger than what we put on them. I am doing a large project myself and have run all the demand calcs myself and the loads are not that significant. (Im an EIT and will have my BS in CE in just a few months, focus is structural). With the 10' wall id be more worried about a flexural failure than a shear or tension failure, might be prudent to brace the top at midspan. I could run some numbers today real quick if you would like, for you or anyone interested in seeing the process.

oh and ps, skip the architects next time and go right to the SE

 

[Superlaz]

Very Cool!!! can't wait to see it completed! what program did u use for that prleimanry design????

 

[wizzin]

Tensile strength is one of the defining characteristics of concrete, because concrete is very weak in tension. There will be tension in your system because of the nature of the shape. The walls will be pushed out by the weight of the water trying to reach a lower elevation, forces will be zero at the top of the walls and maximum at the bottom. All forces must reach ground to be resisted for the system to be in equilibrium and static (not moving), however consider the load path.... the forces will first be resisted by the walls running in the plane perpindicular to themselves.....

However......... these materials that we use to build our diy tanks are designed to take forces much larger than what we put on them. I am doing a large project myself and have run all the demand calcs myself and the loads are not that significant. (Im an EIT and will have my BS in CE in just a few months, focus is structural). With the 10' wall id be more worried about a flexural failure than a shear or tension failure, might be prudent to brace the top at midspan. I could run some numbers today real quick if you would like, for you or anyone interested in seeing the process.

oh and ps, skip the architects next time and go right to the SE

I agree with you on the force concentration. There's a lot not shown in my sketch. Here are a few.

1. i'm drilling and embedding rebar 4" into the existing slab that will extend into every core of the 2nd row of cmu.
2. the bottom 2 or 3 rows will have every core filled with concrete.
3. I was going with 4 steel straps connecting the back wall to the front header of the front wall/window via all-thread embedded into the top 2 rows of cmu.

I still stand by the fact that this is more than sufficient for a 1000 gal volume. The link I posted earlier was for a 1700gal structure and was half as strong in construction materials and methods.

I appreciate the offer on calcs. My SE didn't have time, and only "reviewed" the design. I don't think he even ran any numbers on it. LOL on the architects. They're for appearence only IMO.... Although, i've acted as an architect for the last 10 years prior to this job. I'm just an illustrator now, but used to design a lot.

where did you go to school?

Very Cool!!! can't wait to see it completed! what program did u use for that prleimanry design????

It's sketchup! There is a free version as well. By @last software/Google.

 

[wizzin]

Ok, now I'm convinced. I just read through a thread on "the mud pond" http://www.themudpond.com on a 50,000 gallon pond built with concrete blocks and 2 sides of it are completely above ground. It's made with 8x8x16 cmu with filled cores. The psi on those walls has to be 5000 times what mine will be and his held. The thread is under pond construction and then "lake luke". Really good read. You'll need to register and wait for the admin to approve your registration.

 

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

wizzin

you should be fine if you give some thought to placement of your reinfocment.

I ran some "simplified" calcs, I did it in class this morning so they arent the cleanest but I am confident in my work. I did all the calcs for worst case scenarios with unfactored loads.
These are the demand calcs, I could do some design calcs for you too, but it'll cost you



my disclaimer ->

I am not a licensed engineer and all work shown is for discussion purposes only

 

[wizzin]

wizzin

you should be fine if you give some thought to placement of your reinfocment.

I ran some "simplified" calcs, I did it in class this morning so they arent the cleanest but I am confident in my work. I did all the calcs for worst case scenarios with unfactored loads.
These are the demand calcs, I could do some design calcs for you too, but it'll cost you



my disclaimer ->

I am not a licensed engineer and all work shown is for discussion purposes only

I'll trade you a good contact with Frank Gehry's office for your calcs.

 

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

shoot, i scanned the calcs to pdf, but it wont let me attach a pdf.....

heres the jpeg, its not as clear

wizzin if you want the pdf pm me and ill email it to you