do i have to add the extra loop in the tank, wont this just lower my flow rate? or can i run it like this
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do i have to add the extra loop in the tank, wont this just lower my flow rate? or can i run it like this
The tank will drain to the level of the inside invert - so you would need a (much) bigger sump in the event of a powerout or pump failure. (I can't remember which page that is on but they are all worth reading before you end up measuring and PVC welding this puppy) 
well i saw on another site that if you drill a hole in the pipe then in the event of a power outage the water will only drain to the level of the hole then the air will break the siphon.
You got the pros right heremoneyman6891;1485982; said:
If you follow that advice, when the power returns the pump will send all of the water in the sump up to the tank...and then onto the floor. It is always better to have a system that will restart on its own after a power failure.
What about making an extended inside loop and hiding it under the substrate so that you get a similar effect to the drilled tank (albeit with the extra pipe), with a background on the tank the plumbing behind is hidden - dashed lines. Return system and sump design not shown.
This is my wife's idea after seeing my current prototype in the tank and I think it is quite ingenious.
This would be easier to disguise perhaps. would there be any problems that you can see. It wouldn't be much more expensive.
I also would like to clarify if extending the outside loop further below the tank (whilst keeping the T above the level of the inside U) will increase flow rate or if it is unnecessary (I am currently using the same outside loop length as inside (well it is higher because it goes over the tank wall...)
Having built one now and thoroughly understood this thread the other thing I thought I'd mention is that drainage pvc pipes come with 85 and 88 degree elbow joiners not 90 - which consequently makes the final product somewhat awkward - you end up with V's instead of Us - this is because non-pressure drainage needs to incorporate a degree of fall - something I didn't think about when I grabbed my elbows! My next one will be with pressure pvc pipe and fittings.
This is my wife's idea after seeing my current prototype in the tank and I think it is quite ingenious.
This would be easier to disguise perhaps. would there be any problems that you can see. It wouldn't be much more expensive.
I also would like to clarify if extending the outside loop further below the tank (whilst keeping the T above the level of the inside U) will increase flow rate or if it is unnecessary (I am currently using the same outside loop length as inside (well it is higher because it goes over the tank wall...)
Having built one now and thoroughly understood this thread the other thing I thought I'd mention is that drainage pvc pipes come with 85 and 88 degree elbow joiners not 90 - which consequently makes the final product somewhat awkward - you end up with V's instead of Us - this is because non-pressure drainage needs to incorporate a degree of fall - something I didn't think about when I grabbed my elbows! My next one will be with pressure pvc pipe and fittings.
That is a pretty cool idea. Kudos to your wife. The maximum flow is determined by the maximum distance between height of the top loop and the placement of the tee. As long as the tee is above the inside loop, you will be ok. However, my brain is still asleep so I didn't review the flow through the pipes. I think you understand it well enough though.
Yes Chompers, that means that the flow could only be increased by raising the height above the tank of the top loop - which in most cases would be unsightly and impractical. Oh for a fish room behind the tank
I even thought about the installation of such a long piece of plumbing and it shouldn't be a problem in once piece even with the bracing.
Mind you, for a wet/dry trickle filter the flow rate is more than sufficient.
I even thought about the installation of such a long piece of plumbing and it shouldn't be a problem in once piece even with the bracing.
Mind you, for a wet/dry trickle filter the flow rate is more than sufficient.
Im doing one that has the internal loop under the substrate along the back wall of the tank (pictured above) with pressure pvc - 40mm (to ensure the perfect right angles) and wanted to get some validation on two points - not sure if they have been satisfactorily resolved:
1) does running from 40mm to 50mm (roughly 1.5" to 2") at the end of the drain (into the sump) improve effectiveness or quietness of the plumbing?
2) is there any basis for asserting that efficiency of the system declines as internal diameter goes beyond 1.5". My 40mm using vindex drainage (non-pressure) pipe which has a slightly smaller internal diameter operated very well and the 40mm pressure is only marginally larger - I would have thought that as long as the siphon is operating and the plumbing is water tight then the size of the pipe will only dictate the amount of flow - not the internal pressure which should be governed by the atmospheric pressure, the length of the loops and gravity.
Anyway it is an interesting set of problems.
1) does running from 40mm to 50mm (roughly 1.5" to 2") at the end of the drain (into the sump) improve effectiveness or quietness of the plumbing?
2) is there any basis for asserting that efficiency of the system declines as internal diameter goes beyond 1.5". My 40mm using vindex drainage (non-pressure) pipe which has a slightly smaller internal diameter operated very well and the 40mm pressure is only marginally larger - I would have thought that as long as the siphon is operating and the plumbing is water tight then the size of the pipe will only dictate the amount of flow - not the internal pressure which should be governed by the atmospheric pressure, the length of the loops and gravity.
Anyway it is an interesting set of problems.
