Hikari vs. NLS
- Thread starter Biggfeast
- Start date
Buddha ....... it has nothing to do with a difference of opinion, and everything to do with understanding the basic principles behind training a fish to eat - whatever you decide to feed it. If you can't train a "cichlid" to eat NLS I feel sorry for you. While I agree that with some fish it's not always easy, I've lost count as to how many fish I have personally trained, or seen trained, to eat whatever the owner decides that the fish will eat. (literally thousands of fish) Many of these fish were wild caught specimens, and had never seen a pellet in their life.
It's not rocket science, but there is some skill involved, and in some cases you need to have great patience, and be smarter than the fish.
If an obligatory predator such as a V. lionfish can be trained to come to the surface of the tank, and eat floating NLS pellets, then training a cichlid should be mere child's play in comparison. Sometimes this can take days, sometimes weeks, and yes I clearly understand that in the mean time those chewed up (or ignored) pellets will make a mess. So clean up the mess, and carry on.
The reason that I showed those vids is they showed fish that are not always easy to convert to pellets, or wafers. The NLS wafers are also very hard, they stay firm for several hours once in the tank, yet not only can stingrays be trained to eat them, even the Asian aro in that one link grabbed one & chomped it down.
When I brought in my last flowerhorn from Bangkok it was a skinny malnourished fish that had never seen a pellet in its life, fed exclusively on bloodworms for its entire life. So i outsmarted the fish & soaked the NLS in bloodworm juice, and even still it took a solid 10 days or more before he readily accepted the pellets from my hand. Lots of leftover food & mess in the mean time, but that's what god created pythons for.
Now look at this beast in the making.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=370120
What, you don't think that at 50+ yrs of age I haven't tried other foods? I'm old enough to remember when dried ant eggs were considered a premium food.
FYI - years before I had any vested interest in NLS I was promoting the product. Several yrs ago I was a mod on cichlid-forum in the Health, Nutrition, and Disease folder, and I promoted NLS just as much as I do now, perhaps even more back then. I don't work for New Life, I'm not a paid rep or marketing agent, and I don't sell to hobbyists who hang out on forums.
I also clearly stated to Ogrim
I was simply offering many years of experience to my young mate in AU who has only been keeping cichlids for only 1 year. If he chooses to stick with Hikari for no other reason than it makes his fishkeeping easier, I have no problem with that.
It's not rocket science, but there is some skill involved, and in some cases you need to have great patience, and be smarter than the fish.
If an obligatory predator such as a V. lionfish can be trained to come to the surface of the tank, and eat floating NLS pellets, then training a cichlid should be mere child's play in comparison. Sometimes this can take days, sometimes weeks, and yes I clearly understand that in the mean time those chewed up (or ignored) pellets will make a mess. So clean up the mess, and carry on.
The reason that I showed those vids is they showed fish that are not always easy to convert to pellets, or wafers. The NLS wafers are also very hard, they stay firm for several hours once in the tank, yet not only can stingrays be trained to eat them, even the Asian aro in that one link grabbed one & chomped it down.
When I brought in my last flowerhorn from Bangkok it was a skinny malnourished fish that had never seen a pellet in its life, fed exclusively on bloodworms for its entire life. So i outsmarted the fish & soaked the NLS in bloodworm juice, and even still it took a solid 10 days or more before he readily accepted the pellets from my hand. Lots of leftover food & mess in the mean time, but that's what god created pythons for.
Now look at this beast in the making.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=370120
What, you don't think that at 50+ yrs of age I haven't tried other foods? I'm old enough to remember when dried ant eggs were considered a premium food.
FYI - years before I had any vested interest in NLS I was promoting the product. Several yrs ago I was a mod on cichlid-forum in the Health, Nutrition, and Disease folder, and I promoted NLS just as much as I do now, perhaps even more back then. I don't work for New Life, I'm not a paid rep or marketing agent, and I don't sell to hobbyists who hang out on forums.
I also clearly stated to Ogrim
I'm not holding a gun to anyones head, or insisting that anyone spend days/weeks attempting to train their fish what they want it to eat.
I was simply offering many years of experience to my young mate in AU who has only been keeping cichlids for only 1 year. If he chooses to stick with Hikari for no other reason than it makes his fishkeeping easier, I have no problem with that.
I recently made the switch to NLS from hikari don't really see a difference.
i used hikari for years with my africans then with my ca/sa, they would get bio gold floating and carnivore pellets. the carnivore was the favorite of the tank
i switched to NLS because of the price as my stock grew hakari was getting a bit pricey to feed, carnivore 34$ for 380gs and i had to order it in my area. i like the product but the price was a bit much.
I'm feeding 4.5mm floating and 3mm slow sinking to the 300 gallon and 1mm thera a to the 60 gallon. i had no problems with the change didn't feed a couple days and just started off with small amounts everyone eats it no problems now. have not notice a change in color or anything like that but i am liking NLS so far.
like i said i switched just because it was cheaper in bulk but i do have more food then i need, so i vacuum packed the extras till i need it but 70$ for 2270 g way cheaper for me at least
i used hikari for years with my africans then with my ca/sa, they would get bio gold floating and carnivore pellets. the carnivore was the favorite of the tank
i switched to NLS because of the price as my stock grew hakari was getting a bit pricey to feed, carnivore 34$ for 380gs and i had to order it in my area. i like the product but the price was a bit much.
I'm feeding 4.5mm floating and 3mm slow sinking to the 300 gallon and 1mm thera a to the 60 gallon. i had no problems with the change didn't feed a couple days and just started off with small amounts everyone eats it no problems now. have not notice a change in color or anything like that but i am liking NLS so far.
like i said i switched just because it was cheaper in bulk but i do have more food then i need, so i vacuum packed the extras till i need it but 70$ for 2270 g way cheaper for me at least
Ogrim - before you jump into a discussion that started back in Nov. 2009, and attempt at judging my motives, you might want to actually read this thread in its entirety. I have never once hid the fact that I have a vested interest in the fish food industry, or that I am associated with New Life. That doesn't negate the facts presented in this discussion.
I was probably feeding Hikari before you knew what a cichlid was, and decided years ago that I wasn't going to support a company that uses corn flakes, dried bakery products, other "mystery starches" and MSG in some of their various formulas.
That decision took place many years ago, years before I had any type of vested interest in NLS, or any other brand of food.
I was probably feeding Hikari before you knew what a cichlid was, and decided years ago that I wasn't going to support a company that uses corn flakes, dried bakery products, other "mystery starches" and MSG in some of their various formulas.
That decision took place many years ago, years before I had any type of vested interest in NLS, or any other brand of food.
Hikari is the best for south americans hands down but its debatable for africans. Once on another forum i asked something about hikari and this crazy african cichlid dude comes along and like attacks me with some nls crap, this dude was like psycho over that stuff! But both i and my father have been raising cichlids with crazy growth rates and stunning colors on hikari
I have a serious question about foods that speed up growth rate like most of the Hikari products do. I do know NLS does to an extent, but the question is... is it actually unhealthy for rapid growth rates in fish? I'm not talking about spurts. Every creature on this planet has growth spurts. But growing too fast can not be good for someone/thing can it?
IMO a LOT of people in this hobby become too fixated on just growing BIGGER, and FASTER, and seldom consider longevity. Having said that, I wouldn't say that Hikari or NLS "speed up the growth rate" in a fish.
Overall growth is determined by genetics, water quality, and diet, but power feeding a fish will only net so much in gains.
Overall growth is determined by genetics, water quality, and diet, but power feeding a fish will only net so much in gains.
I think water qaulity and genetics are the main factors of growth rate(as Rd stated)i have done a few simple experiments on this. Two indentical fish from the same parents in different tanks,same food ,same amount of food,one tank 25% water change every 5 days,second tank 50% water change every 5 days,the fish in the second tank cleary out grew the fish in the first tank(by alot)and the colors were alot better. Have also done that with pairs and the pair with the larger water changes grew faster and bred faster than the other pair. As you can see working from home in the winter months i have to much time on my hands
