Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!

[zennzzo]

DESIGN NOTE: Enclose your screen somehow!! Put a shower curtain, or a peice of acrylic a few inches from your screen, or house it entirely within a large container. My screen hangs in free air above my sump, and yesterday a clump of growth built up just the right way to direct a small stream of water off the screen and onto the floor. I lost about 10 gallons of water before the pump started starving and the flow slowed down.

OOOOhhhh that's no good...you need to keep your bushes trimmed. . .

J/K what's the chances of that happening again...

 

[Yanbbrox]

OOOOhhhh that's no good...you need to keep your bushes trimmed. . .

J/K what's the chances of that happening again...

I could see it happening again with a large build up, when it's working well

 

[zennzzo]

I could see it happening again with a large build up, when it's working well

looks lie a great place for some splash guards...

 

[justin guest]

Only thing is, most all screens that I've seen grow better after they have been cleaned a few times. So this fleece material would need to show that it grows at least decently the very first (and only) time.

I don´t think that will be such a problem as a reusable screen has the disadvantage of having to cycle through different stages, meaning spores of different species of algae will be dominant in the aquarium water at different times. With a screen using a continuous fleece there would always be high numbers of spores of the right algae in the water at all times. Only the startup phase may be more difficult. Conjecture I know but we won´t know till someone tries.

Something I didn´t mention is that the best fleece is what´s called a needled fleece. This type of fleece is almost like a very thin filter wool cause it´s been punctured thousands of times with fine needles during production. This means that fine mulm particles and algal spores will be caught up in the fleece creating an ideal substrate for quick algal growth. Because of this characteristic I´d expect this fleece to grow an algal turf much quicker than screens without this mulm/algal spore collecting quality. The thickness of the fleece is still only about 1mm though so storage wouldn´t be a problem.

j<><

 

[loogielv]

I wouldn't pull my Bio media just yet. Like I said above, my tank is still high in ammonia, despite my scrubber being pretty well established, and of the recommended size for my tank. I've also cut down feeding and I'm still having some ammonia issues right now. FW doesn't seem as clear cut as SW

Do a search on Ammonia and tank cycling and it will explain everything you need to know. Beneficial Bacteria on bio media is not algae - it converts Ammonia to Nitrite and Nitrite to NitrAte, which you usually get rid of by doing water changes. The algae scrubber is there to remove the nitrAte (and phosphate) so you don't have to do as many water changes. It is claimed that the algae also removes Ammonia and nitrite directly, but I've not seen this effect yet in my system - it could just be that my algae scrubber is too small for my bio load.

so there has to be another reason why your bio-media isn't removing the ammonia right? if you took out the scrubber, your bio-media would still be failing correct, since you have alot of ammonia currently? perhaps failing isn't the right word, but i hope you get what i'm trying to say...

 

[cvermeulen]

so there has to be another reason why your bio-media isn't removing the ammonia right? if you took out the scrubber, your bio-media would still be failing correct, since you have alot of ammonia currently? perhaps failing isn't the right word, but i hope you get what i'm trying to say...

Yes, if I removed the scrubber, the BB would still be having problems. The tank is going through a mini-cycle near as I can tell. The situation would only get worse if I removed the scrubber, assuming the scrubber is actually removing some ammonia and nitrite directly

 

[SantaMonica]

I lost about 10 gallons of water before the pump started starving and the flow slowed down.

Oh man. Sorry that happened! I've worried about that happening to mine. Mine has started doing it at times, but the pipe is below the level of the acrylic wall, so it stays inside. Open-sump designs are cheap and easy to build, but you do need to keep an eye out for this. I pull my screen out of the pipe for every cleaning, and there are clumps that I have to clean out.

thought so. ok. i've noticed recently that people aren't using the fans. do you think it's really not necessary?

Fans are for when you need cooling, or when you pulse the water with a timer to simulate waves. The timer/fan approach helps grow real red/brown turf (needs very strong light too).

I hope we can replace filter with algae scrubber in future. Or at least we should have one in all of our system.

Well you can certainly add it on. If you ever remove any filter, just keep daily measurements of ammonia for a few weeks to be sure.

I wouldn't pull my Bio media just yet. Like I said above, my tank is still high in ammonia, despite my scrubber being pretty well established, and of the recommended size for my tank. I've also cut down feeding and I'm still having some ammonia issues right now. FW doesn't seem as clear cut as SW

How much are you harvesting each week? With free-running ammonia like you say, you should be able to get a full pound (wet). I get a half pound each week, and my numbers are all zero. Questions: (1) Are your bio media submerged, or do they have water cascading through them? (2) Is there food stuck in the media? These are the two reasons I've seen nitrate buildup. And for ammonia to be testable, there might be some big pieces of food rotting.

if so, isn't the algae scrubber essentially the same thing? it houses alot of algae that's supposed to clean it right? so in essence is the algae scrubber capable of being considered "bio media"?

No, scrubber don't work via bacteria, they work by eating ammonia (and nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, metals, and CO2) directly. The more algae that grows, the more of these things get pulled out of the water.

why do you think your bio-media is NOT removing all the ammonia?

Anytime you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, or phosphate that you can read on a hobby test kit, it just mean you are not exporting enough. Bio media change ammonia to nitrate, and scrubbers eat ammonia. If there is still ammonia, then the bio media is not operating fast enough, and the scrubber does not have enough size/light/flow, or is not cleaned properly.

With a screen using a continuous fleece there would always be high numbers of spores of the right algae in the water at all times. Only the startup phase may be more difficult. Conjecture I know but we won´t know till someone tries.

Ok time for someone to try it

 

[SantaMonica]

Reminder Of The Day: Feeding

Here is a diagram by Eric Borneman that shows what feeds on what:

It was taken from Eric's two building block articles that cover what happens when you feed your tank. This information is what you need to know to really understand what scrubbers do:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-01/eb/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/eb/index.php
.
.

 

[cvermeulen]

How much are you harvesting each week? With free-running ammonia like you say, you should be able to get a full pound (wet). I get a half pound each week, and my numbers are all zero. Questions: (1) Are your bio media submerged, or do they have water cascading through them? (2) Is there food stuck in the media? These are the two reasons I've seen nitrate buildup. And for ammonia to be testable, there might be some big pieces of food rotting.

I tested the water again tonight and the ammo was zero, nitrates and nitrites have settled a bit. Your setup is SW remember. I have yet to harvest my screen other than plucking off little tufts of green 'bush' algae and feeding them to my snails (my big apple snail is mowing on a clump right now). I think this system is effective in FW as well as SW, but it is not AS effective.

Think of the masses of kelp and other seaweeds you see in the ocean compared to the plantlife in FW lakes... I think there is some fundamental difference there somewhere.

 

[SantaMonica]

I have yet to harvest my screen

That's the problem right there. It's been way way way too long... I thought you'd been cleaning weekly. The underlying layers are dying from being shaded by the new growth. I've seen it now several times on several screens from different people. It's surely adding ammonia to the water. I'd clean the whole thing, then clean alternate halves each week.