New project, will take a long time

[X24]

What kind of bio media are you thinking of running in there? I'm thinking that that container full of pot scrubbies would work fine for your pond. Its not quite the same as a tank where the filter basically is all you have to do the job, a lot of it will end up being algea and plants and the fact that ponds are generally lighter stocked then our tanks.

I think that should be find for biofiltration. What exactly do the vortexs look like?

 

[Yanbbrox]

What kind of bio media are you thinking of running in there? I'm thinking that that container full of pot scrubbies would work fine for your pond. Its not quite the same as a tank where the filter basically is all you have to do the job, a lot of it will end up being algea and plants and the fact that ponds are generally lighter stocked then our tanks.

I think that should be find for biofiltration. What exactly do the vortexs look like?

Long time no see X, thanks for taking the trouble to post in my mad idea thread, one of these days I'll work out the ibuprofen is all about

There are going to be no plants and at the end of the filtration system is going to be UV so algae shouldn't rear it's ugly head, plus the pond is going to be in partial shade.

As for the picture, I'll get one up when they arrive, 42'' deep by 30'' diameter. Can't find the site I got them off, mad as it sounds

Bio media is difficult to work out, the plan was to try and mimic a nexus but on a larger scale as I don't have a grand to drop on a filter alone. Kaldnes K1 or K3 was what I had in mind but standard bio balls should work out fine in a pond environment, i'd rather go over board rather than add to everything later. This whole project gets on top of me at times, I'm basing everthingthing on technologly that was around 10 years ago when I reasearched everything and thought I knew everything, things move on but if it was fine ten years ago then I'm sure will work now. Not that I've not reasearched everything again since

 

[Yanbbrox]

With the imminent arrival of the vortexes I need to house them, hole 2.0 construction begins:



This could mean a HUGE problem, there is only 2 foot of clay between hole 1 and hole 2 which leaves me very concerned about the structural integrity of hole 2 not collapsing into hole one once the water is filled, I need to reinforce this with concrete, something I hadn't planned on.

Obvious but I missed it in the original design

 

[Yanbbrox]

I now have no concerns about if I've got enough filtration. These are huge


However I'm massively concerned about the wall holding back 1 ton per metre cubed of water from the pond. Any structural engineers out there who can offer some advise on the best way of going about it?

 

[Red Devil]

I now have no concerns about if I've got enough filtration. These are huge
View attachment 230835

However I'm massively concerned about the wall holding back 1 ton per metre cubed of water from the pond. Any structural engineers out there who can offer some advise on the best way of going about it?

wow no doubt about it... awesome

 

[mike dunagan]

what about digging the whole out and building a cinderblock wall with rebar and fill with concrete? then put clay back in front and back of it... or just dig a trench in the middle of the clay wall and do what I said above?

 

[X24]

I've been lurking this thread since the beginning, probably commented a couple times too, you must have just been too tired from digging to notice lol.

Kaldnes media is top-notch and if you can find it it would work better then bioballs. Are those large black ones the vortex's? Is that that idea behind them that the water flows in a circle and kind of spins around the media in the inside?

Although i'm not an engineer of any type, Mike's idea about trenching it would just be an idea for some extra protection. Just make the trench a couple feet wider on each side then the pond and pour some cement down the trench.

 

[Yanbbrox]

what about digging the whole out and building a cinderblock wall with rebar and fill with concrete? then put clay back in front and back of it... or just dig a trench in the middle of the clay wall and do what I said above?

One of several routes I'd come up with but possibly the most expensive, thanks for the idea Mike, I'll explain at the bottom the new plan

wow no doubt about it... awesome

Yes they are quite large, thanks Liz

I've been lurking this thread since the beginning, probably commented a couple times too, you must have just been too tired from digging to notice lol.
Quoted you a few comments up

Kaldnes media is top-notch and if you can find it it would work better then bioballs. Are those large black ones the vortex's? Is that that idea behind them that the water flows in a circle and kind of spins around the media in the inside?

Although i'm not an engineer of any type, Mike's idea about trenching it would just be an idea for some extra protection. Just make the trench a couple feet wider on each side then the pond and pour some cement down the trench.

Kaldnes media is very expensive but I can get it, just depends on how much I would actually need verses cost/effectiveness, something I need to look into a bit more.

To answer your question about the vortexes I'll explain fully how the system works. I know there are a lot of very knowledgeable folks on here so if I'm boring you with something you already know please skip this paragraph. The idea is that I install a sump under the pond, this is not a sump as you would think of in a tank system, more a a solid waster pipe that sits at the lowest pond of the pond, everything is angled downwards toward this drain. A four inch pipe runs from the sump under the whole pond and emerges up into the filter chamber(hole 2) this connects to vortex one via two 90 degree bends at the bottom(the big black ones) and then out again at the top, back down again via two more bends into the bottom of vortex two and out of the top again into a return chamber(or the bio filter and then into a return chamber). The key is to get the tops of the vortexes and return chamber all level with the water level of the pond. The pump sits in the return chamber, when off nothing happens gravity fills all the chambers in the system, when the pump is on that chambers water level drops below the surface of the pond and gravity takes over by filling the return chamber back up but to do this it has to go through the vortexes via the sump at the bottom of the pond. This results in the majority of waste going down under the pond into vortex one, as that spins up it creates water flow in a circle like a whirpool, as the waste is heavier than water it forces the waste down into the bottom of the first chamber(where a valve is fitted to remove the solid waste). That is where most of the work is done, as these are seriously huge, I ordered a grid that sits in vortex two and as X said it then spins up through the media in that vortex into the return chamber.

Sorry about all that So my next problem is if I do away with the bio filter I will need both mechanical and bio in vortex two, the ideal way for matting(fancy foam) to work in the chamber is to install it veritcally for maximum filtrataion as it spins, if I add bio filtration inbetween then that will start to take over the matting as well and it will start to clog, something I need to work out yet. The idea was just to use matting in that chamber and then use the bio filter for bio but plans change. I suppose I could alway get a third, but that will drive up costs even more.

On to the bracing, the cheapest option I've found so far is to brace hole 2 in 3/4 inch marine ply (8 foot by 4 foot sheets) on both sides and then brace that up against each other, this will also help support the filters as I'm expecting a little movement as there is going to be 2000 gal an hour running through them. Fix the ply to the walls with 3 by3 fence posts, driven in about 2 foot into the ground and brace the bottom in concrete and the middle and top in wood.

Tired now, I'll answer any comments in the morning

 

[jersey600]

On to the bracing, the cheapest option I've found so far is to brace hole 2 in 3/4 inch marine ply (8 foot by 4 foot sheets) on both sides and then brace that up against each other, this will also help support the filters as I'm expecting a little movement as there is going to be 2000 gal an hour running through them. Fix the ply to the walls with 3 by3 fence posts, driven in about 2 foot into the ground and brace the bottom in concrete and the middle and top in wood.

the marine ply is a good idea, you need to put it on the two longer walls in your situation.. essentially, you have a trench and you want to keep it from collapsing. i couldn't follow your plan description but your bracing needs to look like this:

some thick marine ply with 4x4's spanning across. build this and place it in hole #2 with the 4x4's normal to the force of the pond

And just to comment on your digging. You're dedicated, I would have rented the excavator for the $100 and stayed out of shape and be content. Pretty impressive to say the least, especially since you used a LANDSCAPING SPADE!!! i cannot believe that you dug so much out with that tool. you could have saved a lot of effort on your half by using a round point shovel.

http://www.ronhazelton.com/tips/Shovel_Choosing_the_Right_One.htm

keep it coming with the updates, the pond is coming along nicely

 

[Yanbbrox]

the marine ply is a good idea, you need to put it on the two longer walls in your situation.. essentially, you have a trench and you want to keep it from collapsing. i couldn't follow your plan description but your bracing needs to look like this:

some thick marine ply with 4x4's spanning across. build this and place it in hole #2 with the 4x4's normal to the force of the pond

And just to comment on your digging. You're dedicated, I would have rented the excavator for the $100 and stayed out of shape and be content. Pretty impressive to say the least, especially since you used a LANDSCAPING SPADE!!! i cannot believe that you dug so much out with that tool. you could have saved a lot of effort on your half by using a round point shovel.

http://www.ronhazelton.com/tips/Shovel_Choosing_the_Right_One.htm

keep it coming with the updates, the pond is coming along nicely

Thanks for the diagram, I was actually going to brace it a bit more but the plan is very similar:

----------------
| / \ |/ \|
| | |
| \ /|\ /|
----------------

---- = marine ply 3/4 inch thick
| = 3x3 posts
\ and / = corner strengtheners

All done 3 times top middle and bottom, but on all three cross beams I'm going to sledge in a 4x4 post and add the brace to that.

Hope that is a bit clearer.

As for the choice of spade, it's a smaller than the average one, this saves on weight when emptying the waste, with a normal size spade I would get a lot more tired a lot more quickly
£100 = $200 plus extra day hire on top