Plant only filtration (why not popular in the hobby???)

[aquaponicpaw]

You're reinventing the wheel aqua. Trying pothos underwater isn't a new boundary. It's been tried by thousands over the last decades (myself included). It doesn't last long term. It's just not an aquatic plant. The same is true for mondo grass and many other "aquarium" plants you'll find for sale. They last 1-12 months, then finally succumb to the unnatural environment.
If you really want good pothos though, keep a potted one in a south facing window and water with aquarium water, and you'll have a specimen better than any grown with the roots in an aquarium.
And by the way, many tree species put on tremendous growth and seed crops right before death, and they're definitely not annuals.

Good-times. I'd guess pothos came to the forefront simply because it is easily propagated through cuttings, is fast growing, and cheap. One friend can easily supply dozens. This lead to it being a very well known plant and put it in the front early for aquarium experimentation.

Thanks for the input. the beauty of all of this is that none of it has been substantiated with scientific evidence. Some claim to have them survive for years. Some can't seem to get them to take at all. Reinventing the wheel? No! I'd like to look at it as simply having my experience serving as proof that it can be done by those who say it can't. A truly non aquatic plant will die almost the instant that It's growth conditions are not met. I don't buy that 12 month theory. It's counter to what is currently being observed. As far as the mondo grass and the tree comparison. We are talking about Monocot and dicots here. As well as the deciduous aspect of "healthy" trees. From all of the info that I've come across since doing this "the only variable has been personal experience with varied results. which can be attributed to parameters of individual setups. Live or die, I will keep you guys posted. I dont buy that twelve month "theory" It's kind of counter to what is happening in my tank. And it is counter to every bit of info that I've come across thus far. Most plants will grow indefinitely as long as their nutrient requirements are met. Maybe that is an underlying factor. thanks for your input though.

 

[anarchir]

You guys are reminding me Of how magnificent turtles are! How old is he^^^ and what are you using to move the water?

I think he's about two, but I really dont know. Rescued him from a highway this summer. I have a small airstone like the one below taped to the bottom of a plastic plant, taped to a few small stones for some water movement. The turtle tends to push this plant all over the aquarium. Also the water falling from the filter pushes onto some plastic plants on top of the basking ramp which the water then runs down so it doesn't just splash straight into the tank. There is little to no water movement in the section of the tank by the plant, but I'll figure something out for that eventually. I consider my tank an evolving process.

 

[anarekist]

i added a pathos like 2 weeks ago an it just seems like its dying while my nitrates are like 40ppm with every other day 35% water change.
Gona add more but so far i havent seen any improvment in water quality OR plant growth, do i have to dose the water with ferts?

 

[Rivermud]

i added a pathos like 2 weeks ago an it just seems like its dying while my nitrates are like 40ppm with every other day 35% water change.
Gona add more but so far i havent seen any improvment in water quality OR plant growth, do i have to dose the water with ferts?

How do you have the pothos in your tank?

P.S. I googled "Pothos Submerged" and the first page I went to were of several people saying how they've had it growing for years.http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-a...submerged.html

I decided to follow the link and read what they had to say. I didn't see a single person say they had success with a fully submerged plant. Nearly all of them stated that they had to have leaves out of the water. One stated that the plant grew a few leaves under the water, this will happen but it WILL not grow completely submerged. The reason for this is that it is a terrestrial plant. There are a few emergent plants that can be converted to fully submerged, these plants generally change their entire leaf/stem growth to accomplish this change.

If you would like to know more about this you can check plantedtank.net. There are thousands of avid planted tank fans there and they will gladly educate you on immersed, emergent, and underwater plants.

A pothos can survive underwater with intense light and leaves out of the water as well. The underwater leaves are not fully developed and will rot eventually. I know this because I did it. I am posting because someone might read this thread and think "ooo cool I can plant my tank with pothos" and shove it in their substrate hoping it will draw nitrate out of the water and thrive. It won't, the leaves will go slightly yellowish at first then there will be a browning effect where the leaf begins to rot until it fully rots away.

In effect, if you are reading this and want to be successful with terrestrial plants, don't grow them underwater.

 

[anarekist]

How do you have the pothos in your tank?

i have it stuffed into one of the top inlet holes that im am currently not using, roots submerged (most of which rotted away) with the leaves flowing down the side to get the sun coming in through the back door of the garage so it gets plenty of morning/afternoon low light. cleaned it up a bit last night, pulled about 8 dead yellow leaves so far and the leaves at the ends appear to be curling and turning black..

 

[Rivermud]

Wow.. 39 pages and 3 hours of reading + searching up the names of plants...
Are there any plants that grow long roots underwater?
Or plants that I can just put in the tank coz my overhead filters have taken up most of the space..

Loads, though going with a planted tank (underwater plants) take a bit more work. Pothos develope a very large root system. most of your vining style plants will grow like this. The nice thing about these is that they can drape over the edge of the tank and just hang.. thus no need to vertical height.

 

[Rivermud]

i have it stuffed into one of the top inlet holes that im am currently not using, roots submerged (most of which rotted away) with the leaves flowing down the side to get the sun coming in through the back door of the garage so it gets plenty of morning/afternoon low light. cleaned it up a bit last night, pulled about 8 dead yellow leaves so far and the leaves at the ends appear to be curling and turning black..

Can you take a photo?

This may be due to the plant acclimating itself to the change. Similar to when you re-pot a plant they can sometimes get shocked and will cut themselves back. A picture and a little background would help to answer you problem.

 

[aquaponicpaw]

http://www.stupidgardenplants.com/archives/pothos-vine-easy-aquarium-plant
another example of it growing underwater. and like mentioned above the only variable in this whole equation seems to be personal experience. would you guys agree that my plant is growing underwater? Here is a pic of what has grown above the waterline on its own accord. I don't anticipate it being much more than that as I will always keep a lid on the tank. I feel I also need to mention that the tank is heavily aerated beccause I have a rio pump in there providing excellent circulation and "bubbles". Like mentioned above^ the only variable seems to be personal experience. None of you have substantiated your claims. the only difference between your stance and mine is that I'm providing pics and links to back up my stance.

 

[Rivermud]

I don't need to provide pics of rotting leaves. I have science backing me. Your situation has been with a grown plant that you bought at a box store and plopped into your tank. I had pothos cutting survive for over 3 months before rotting in my tank. You stated that the leaves that you've had die off get eaten. further proof that the leaves don't survive under water. This is a full plant you are dealing with and thus is drawing from itself to keep the leaves from going away. If you'd like to prove to the world that it works, cut anything that reaches out of the water and then tell us how long the plant survives.. you will find it doesn't, if it did then there would be a half million planted tank freaks with underwater pothos.. seriously go talk to the planted tank freaks and find out for yourself. til then, please don't spout personal experience from a few months as advice to others. If that doesn't satisfy you then you may want to research terrestrial plants, emergent plants, and immersed plants and learnt eh difference and why they do what they do.

BTW if science isn't substantiation then I don't know what to tell you.

Here is a experiment, this will allow you to prove me wrong. If a Pothos can be grown underwater this should prove it beyond doubt. Since your experience is proven by a "pics or it didn't happen" mentallity you can document it as well.

Hypothesis: Pothos can be grown underwater

Experiement: A single pothos leaf clipping can be rooted in a glass of water. Aquaponicpaw claims a pothos can be grown underwater. Take a clipping from a pothos and plant it in your substrate. If a pothos can be grown underwater and can be rooted in water then the leaf should provide enough nutrition from the nutrients in the water to establish a root system and grow new leaves. A plant with a root system and multiple leaves to draw from can produce growth for a short period of time to try to reach a survivable state (ie the open air) thus the experiment would be flawed if we used a fully developed and rooted/potted plant. You can if you choose, pre-root a single leaf in a cup prior to putting it in your substrate as the root and plant structure will not have a large enough reserve to reach air.

Expected Results: Science states that terrestrial plants do not have the capability to absorb nutrients from a water column thus long term survival is not possible without access to a terrestrial (non submersed) environment. Pothos cannot develop leaves of the proper structure for underwater living.

So, put your money where your mouth is and take me up on it. I have some pothos in a grow bed that i can easilly pull and tossed in my 24 inch deep 100 gallon tank. I'll even tie it down as i have no substrate so that it would be growing at normal substrate depth. I hate to sacrifice a plant just to prove a point but I will so that we don't have readers of this thread going off and wasting their time and spiking their ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates due to their plant (which is supposed to remove nitrates) rotting slowly away in their tank. The only reason your plant grew was that it pulled from it's reserves enough to reach open air. That's all, it didn't "grow" it survived, and there is a big difference between growth and survival.

 

[framcosco]

Plants actually absorb ammonium not ammonia, though a very small amount of ammonia converts over to ammonium naturally in the presence of water and more effectively in lower ph ranges. Over time the process gets more effective in your aquarium. The rest of the ammonia that is left must be dealt with through the normal process.

What you are seeing is emergent plants. These plants have troubles at times going from soil based to water based.. They tend to grow new leaves after awhile. When the old growth begins to die off then remove it.. don't do it before hand because it is still working for the plant.

Thank you for clarifying this. I was afraid that using lots of terrestrial plants would drastically reduce my established bacteria due to the plants out-competing the good bacteria for ammonia.