Q's about Back-feeding Electricity from Generator

Jgray152

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Dec 23, 2006
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90% of the time you will be running less than 15-20 amps when running on a gen if not a perm install. When back feeding a panel, you never want to have everything on in the house unless you have the proper generator when will be over 10k watts. This is why when in a pickel, you can use 10-12 gauge wire.

12 is the smallest but I still would rather people use 10 for a minimum when in a pickel. Most 30 amp 4 prong plugs that are about $30 or more can only go up to 10 ga I do believe. Maybe 8awg
 

Dan F

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Dec 10, 2007
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Jgray152;2572726; said:
90% of the time you will be running less than 15-20 amps when running on a gen if not a perm install. When back feeding a panel, you never want to have everything on in the house unless you have the proper generator when will be over 10k watts. This is why when in a pickel, you can use 10-12 gauge wire.

12 is the smallest but I still would rather people use 10 for a minimum when in a pickel. Most 30 amp 4 prong plugs that are about $30 or more can only go up to 10 ga I do believe. Maybe 8awg
It sounds like I got a deal on my plug - I paid $18.00. It fit 8AWG stranded wire but I don't think it would fit anything bigger. I would have gone with 10AWG if I hadn't had the 8AWG wire laying around.
 

four-ever

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Dec 30, 2008
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Jgray152;2559493; said:
First, don't use extension cords. They are rated from 10-15 amps and a 5000watt gen is about 41 amps.

You never want to back feed the panel through an outlet. First, the outlets can only hold up to 15 amps of power. Also, some outlets may only be wired with 14 gauge wire, not enough to fed a panel.

Tell ya what, go to the store, buy your self atleast 25' of 12/3 wire. 10/3 is better but 12/3 will work if you can't find 10/3.

12/3 means you have 3 wires (not including ground) which are 12 Gauge. Same goes for 10/3. The lower the number, the thicker the wire.

The 4 prong connector on your generator is for 240 volts. Watch out though, there are two different 240 v connectors. They look EXACTLY the same but one has a small tab on one of the pins facing out of the circle of prongs and the other has the tab facing into the circle.

To figure out which you need,
L14-20: 20 Amp 240v plug. Tab facing out of circle.
L14-30: 30 Amp 240v plug. Tab facing in the circle.

If you look on the 240v recepticle, it will say what type of plug it is. It will either say L14-20 or L14-30. The brand name will probubly be NEMA.

12/3 wire has 4 wires.
1 Red (HOT)
1 Black (HOT)
1 White (Neutral)
1 Copper (Ground)

On the back of the plug you will see some letters. GWXY. These are very important.

G - Ground
W - Neutral
Y - HOT
w - HOT

It doesn't matter which HOT wire goes to which letter but make sure you have the Neutral and Ground wires correct.

After you wire up the plug, you will then need to wire the panel.

TURN MAIN OFF!!!!!! Also Turn off all other breakers as well.

With the main off you are safe. Even if you don't have power, you don't knowif the power company is just about to hook you back up, or if someone is backfeeding the pole wires with their generator. All are bad news for you.

Find a 240 Breaker. They are one of the double breakers. Usually people, like me, will back feed into a dryer breaker, obveously the dryer will be disconnected.

Remove the Circuit Panel cover. Find one of those 240 breakers and disconnect the wires from it, wrap up those disconnect wires and push them to the side. You don't have to remember the order of the wires on the breaker.

See if you can run your 12/3 wire through an open port in the panel on its side. If not, its not a big deal, you just won't be able to put the panel cover back on correctly.

Now, strip back the outside insulation about 12-18". Strip the ends of the White, Red and Black Wires.

Connect the White and Copper (Ground) wire to the ground strip inside the panel. You will find white and copper wires connecting to it. Neutral and Ground are the same.

Connect your Red and Black wires to that 240v double breaker which in my case was the dryer breaker. Again, it doesn't matter what order you connect the red and black wires to the breaker in.

Make sure all your connections are solid and there there are no bare wires that could cause issues.

Start up the generator atleast 10' or so away from the house with the exhaust pointing away from the building. I would reccomend not putting it in the garage. It will not hurt the gen to have snow fall on it. TRUST ME. For your own safty!!!

After the Gen has warmed up for about 5 minutes. Plug in the 12/3 wire to the Gen into the 240v recepticle. Make sure the breaker you are using for the GEN is OFF.

After noticing there are no sparks flying. hehe. Go inside the panel and turn on the GEN breaker. Then turn on each breaker one by one. The best one to start would be the breaker for the basement or where the panel is so you can have light.

Hope this helps.
Thank you Jgray152

i have been searching the web for such info, but still a little unclear
i live on the very west coast of BC power outages are common

i have had 3, 12 hour outages just this week, worst was 2 years ago 11 day power outage, the way the weather is shapeing up right now i expect more and worse

i have read and printed your post, but as i read on through the thread it makes me a little confused with the ground/neutral wireing

what i would like to do is install a 220 female plug in my carport panel so in emergancys i can run my generator to power the house (with the main shut off) , i cannot install a switch unit into the main sub panel,

so saying that
what would be the best 220 female plug to install? dryer? or range?
my genny runs a
L14-20 4 prong terminals X,Y,G,W,on a 125/240 gen circuit
i have a spare 30 amp 220 breaker in the panel , unused and easy to run new wire to

my confusion comes with the ground/neutral wire

my goal is to power the house through this for minimal use

110 uses
, no actual 220 uses,
in extreme power outages that we get, i would like to power
110 furnace and minimal 110 outlets and lites

i have back fead the 110 in the last 3 outages and had minimal lites and furnace, but it was a task switching breakers

so , could you draw a schematic so i could be more clear?

Thank you
 

Bderick67

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Aug 18, 2006
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four-ever;2587097; said:
Thank you Jgray152

i have been searching the web for such info, but still a little unclear
i live on the very west coast of BC power outages are common

i have had 3, 12 hour outages just this week, worst was 2 years ago 11 day power outage, the way the weather is shapeing up right now i expect more and worse

i have read and printed your post, but as i read on through the thread it makes me a little confused with the ground/neutral wireing

what i would like to do is install a 220 female plug in my carport panel so in emergancys i can run my generator to power the house (with the main shut off) , i cannot install a switch unit into the main sub panel,

so saying that
what would be the best 220 female plug to install? dryer? or range?
my genny runs a
L14-20 4 prong terminals X,Y,G,W,on a 125/240 gen circuit
i have a spare 30 amp 220 breaker in the panel , unused and easy to run new wire to

my confusion comes with the ground/neutral wire

my goal is to power the house through this for minimal use

110 uses
, no actual 220 uses,
in extreme power outages that we get, i would like to power
110 furnace and minimal 110 outlets and lites

i have back fead the 110 in the last 3 outages and had minimal lites and furnace, but it was a task switching breakers

so , could you draw a schematic so i could be more clear?

Thank you
Jgray152 does a pretty good job of explaining this, maybe post specific questions on your neutal/ground confusion.

As for the outlet, install the same L14-20 configuation as on the generator. Buy two matching female plugs and build a custom extention cord to connect the gen to the new recepticle. Becareful, you can have exposed energized prongs with this setup though. Make sure generator is off and the main circut breaker is open BEFORE installing or removing the extention cord.

One thing that has been missed, the metal frame of the generator needs to be grounded. Although not likely to happen there are a few ways the frame could become energized. If a person were to become the path to ground, it could be fatal.
 

crisper

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Jan 4, 2008
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over there boi
If people still insist on not using a manual transfer switch for there gen sets. Then it must be strongly empasized that the main breaker must be open and locked. As i stated earlier. If two seperate sources of power are feeding a load at the same time a dead short will occur. The only way two sources of power can feed one load is if they are synchronized and that goes beyond the scope of this thread.
 

johnptc

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crisper;2588022; said:
If people still insist on not using a manual transfer switch for there gen sets. Then it must be strongly empasized that the main breaker must be open and locked. As i stated earlier. If two seperate sources of power are feeding a load at the same time a dead short will occur. The only way two sources of power can feed one load is if they are synchronized and that goes beyond the scope of this thread.
also it can kill someone working on the lines
 

crisper

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over there boi
Both neutral and ground are wired to the same place in the panel but are same.
Understanding Neutral and Ground




This is wrong neutral and ground are not wired to the same place in the panel. Ground is bolted directly to the panel while your neutral is isolated. These are completely seperate from each other.
 

johnptc

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crisper;2588041; said:
Both neutral and ground are wired to the same place in the panel but are same.:irked::irked::irked:
Understanding Neutral and Ground




This is wrong neutral and ground are not wired to the same place in the panel. Ground is bolted directly to the panel while your neutral is isolated. These are completely separate from each other.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:
 
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