Q's about Back-feeding Electricity from Generator

[johnptc]

Both neutral and ground are wired to the same place in the panel but are same.
Understanding Neutral and Ground




This is wrong neutral and ground are not wired to the same place in the panel. Ground is bolted directly to the panel while your neutral is isolated. These are completely separate from each other.

some main services will tie the earth ground rod, the neutral,the meatl service box and the ground together..........this occurs only at one place in a service if it occurs at all

 

[Jgray152]

^ and ^^. I think its been covered already.

Jgray152 does a pretty good job of explaining this, maybe post specific questions on your neutal/ground confusion.

Ya I need to know a bit more but I will talk about it a little more.

Power needs to go some where in order to make a complete circuit. the HOT wire (usually black and red in a 240v situation) travels through a device (such as a TV, blower for your furnece, lights, vacuum, light switch Etc.) to the neutral wire which leads to ground. The device acts as a resistance in current flow. If you were to connect the black and white wires together without any safty devices, there would be an unmeasurable amount of current passing through the wires to the point where they could heat up and glow like a light bulb! So, really, the Black and white wires are being connected together but with a resistance in between which is the device.

Bare Copper wires are used as a fault to ground circuit. Their nick name is "Ground". In both cases, Neutral (white) and Bare Copper both eventually lead to ground.

Technically (don't try this at all), you "could" use the bare copper wire as your neutral and your white wire as your ground. The only danger here is the fact the power will be feeding from the HOT wire into the bare copper wire which is bad because there is no insultion protecting the wire. Bare copper wires don't need insulation when used as a ground circuit because their primary use is for a fault to ground. Usually there is nothing flowing through the ground but sometimes there is, in which case, its usually very small and you want it to flow to ground.

Don't be to confused over Neutral and Ground. Just remember the Neutral wires are used to allow power from the HOT wires to flow to ground to complete or "CLOSE" the circuit.

Open and Closed circuits mean the HOT and NEUTRAL contacts are either Disconnected (OPEN CIRCUIT) or connected (CLOSED CIRCUIT).

As for the outlet, install the same L14-20 configuation as on the generator. Buy two matching female plugs and build a custom extention cord to connect the gen to the new recepticle. Becareful, you can have exposed energized prongs with this setup though. Make sure generator is off and the main circut breaker is open BEFORE installing or removing the extention cord.

You mean to MALE plugs which will be used at either ends of the made up cable to plug into the female recepticles?

One thing that has been missed, the metal frame of the generator needs to be grounded. Although not likely to happen there are a few ways the frame could become energized. If a person were to become the path to ground, it could be fatal.

Absolutly. Thank you!

Four Ever,
In order to easily be able to plug the generator in, I would go with an external recepticle box with a LT14-30 amp recepticle. Just incase you ever upgrade your gen or need to use another gen with a 30 amp plug, you won't overload a 20amp recepticle on your house.

HomeDepot
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...3&productId=100155901&N=10000003+90260+503110

Install that in a outdoor recepticle box. There should be wiring instruction with it when you buy it. I can't say if they are marked with letters or colored screws on the back of that plug.

You will want to use a 30 AMP 240v breaker in your panel and wire it up according to the instructions given with the plug.

 

[Dan F]

Both neutral and ground are wired to the same place in the panel but are same.
Understanding Neutral and Ground




This is wrong neutral and ground are not wired to the same place in the panel. Ground is bolted directly to the panel while your neutral is isolated. These are completely seperate from each other.

I'm not sure I follow. I understand that neutral and ground are different, but I don't see how they are wired to different parts of the panel. In my panel the grounds (bare copper) and neutrals (white insulation) all tie into the same bar.

 

[Jgray152]

You got it before me. I am uploading 4 pictures. 1 100a panel and 3 pics of a 200a panel regarding this as well.

 

[Jgray152]

Here is out old 100amp service panel. You can see there is only ONE location for ground and neutral

Here is our new 200amp service panel. There are two areas for grounding and neutral but either or go to the same place.

Now, you CAN keep them completly seporate. There is no wrong there. You can see there is a large ground wire in my panel which connects to the left ground strip. That ground wire connects to our water pipes. Technically, this should ONLY be used for ground and not neutral since its connected to our water pipes, this could be dangerous I do beleive. I must admit, I am not a certified electrician but I have been around it long enough. So I believe there needs to be some attention in this panel. But, Both neutral and ground wires are connected on both strips on the left and the right.

 

[johnptc]

TYPICAL WIRES FROM A MAIN PANEL

FOR 220 VOLTS CIRCUITS THE NEUTRAL IS NOT NEEDED USE A C D

FOR 110 VOLTS USE ABD OR BCD

 

[Jgray152]

FOR 220 VOLTS CIRCUITS THE NEUTRAL IS NOT NEEDED USE A C D

Depends on the appliance. Some appliances need a neutral but some don't. You can use the Neutral instead of Ground for 240V applications. RED,BLACK,WHITE or RED,BLACK,COPPER

For a generator 20-30amp receptacle, they use a neutral in case you need one with 240 but also because you NEED it for 110

You don't want to connect Neutral to Earth Ground, example, neutral to a copper ground rod outside in the ground because for higher current applications there could be considerable resistance doing it this way instead of neutral grounding to the main line.

It really depends on the code in your town/state. Some may only want neutral to the main line and ground to earth which is very proper. Some don't care where the ground goes as long as neutral is connected to the main line. In my case, there is neutral connected to the ground which I do beleive is a no no. I didn't know how my Neutral, Ground circuit was untill just now when I removed the panel cover to snap a few pictures.

Another link to understand Neutral and Ground
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_and_neutral

 

[johnptc]

Depends on the appliance. Some appliances need a neutral but some don't.

so much to learn.thanks i havent seen that combo

 

[four-ever]

Wow, thanks guys for the responses

I will print it all off and study it

and yes i am well aware of the backfeeding danger to linemen and such

if i could put a switch ouver in, i would, but it just isnt possible with out moving the service completely

i got this thread book marked !!

Thanks!

 

[Bderick67]

Wow, thanks guys for the responses

I will print it all off and study it

and yes i am well aware of the backfeeding danger to linemen and such

if i could put a switch ouver in, i would, but it just isnt possible with out moving the service completely

i got this thread book marked !!

Thanks!

You won't have a switch, but do have the removable cord. In your case do not have the Main breaker closed with the cord installed EVER.

As for the outlet, install the same L14-20 configuation as on the generator. Buy two matching female plugs and build a custom extention cord to connect the gen to the new recepticle. Becareful, you can have exposed energized prongs with this setup though. Make sure generator is off and the main circut breaker is open BEFORE installing or removing the extention cord.

You mean to MALE plugs which will be used at either ends of the made up cable to plug into the female recepticles?

Good catch, it was late.