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Rotkeil Severum

Thanks for all of the replies guys. It is with a female Rotkeil as well. Parameters are all good. I feed Ken's food. Mixture of color max flakes, blackworm flakes, Spirulina and Krill flakes. Krill pellets, growth pellets. And occasionally frozen brine shrimp and frozen bloodworms. I ordered these from Jeff Rapps last January, after a few other attempts with ones that didnt turn out as red as I hoped. So I figured if I went with his stock I would get what I was looking for. He decribed them as "efasciatus 'Rotkeil'- cb peru red shoulder/rotkeil severum juveniles. A stunning and relatively peaceful addition to md/lg community tanks"
 
Here is a photo of one of his tankmates, a male Acaricthys Heckelli taken at the time that picture was taken. So I don’t think his lack of red is due to anything water related

44220ACB-1B12-46AA-94FE-C9EC7F3B37D8.jpeg
 
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Also, the severum is the most dominant fish in the tank if that makes a differece
Which would normally trend toward it's being colored nicely. Makes it a bit of a mystery, then. Rapps = good, water good, dominant in the tank good, checked ingredients on Ken's color flakes, not too bad. Captive bred (cb), so you'd expect fish from known parents. Don't know.

What I do know: 1) Sometimes a faded or stressed fish can look very different than what it really is, though you wouldn't think stress if it's a dominant fish in the tank. 2) Normally rotkeils by that size are starting to look like rotkeils, not in their full glory yet, but you should know you have a rotkeil and not a standard green severum by then. 3) 4.5 inches in 18 months? That's slower than normal growth by any experience I've had, and I have some breeding experience with them. 4.5 inches would be on the small side for me, even for 12 months, among the smaller/smallest of any particular spawn.

Not to get into a food debate, but I've done a lot of food testing, paid attention down to the level of which species I've kept look better on which of the foods I like-- and I like a couple of different products. But my rotkeils looked really good on NLS, including or maybe especially on Thera-A, and mine loved the stuff. Just a thought, like I say, not trying to start a food debate.

One other thing occurs to me. I'm recalling a group of pigeon blood discus I had years ago, back when they were first coming available. One of them started out a runt with no color, stayed that way through most of its first year. Was 1.5 inches when the others were two inches, 3.5 inches when the others hit 6, still no color. Then for no apparent reason it started growing, eventually became the biggest, most dominant, and one of the most beautiful of the whole group.

Here's hoping... :)
 
Thank you for your detailed response. Also, I meant I got the fish this past January, 2017. So I’ve had it about 10 months and it was the size of a quarter when I first got it. Also I sent jeff an email asking about what his experience with the development of this Fish is and this is how he replied:
Thanks for your excellent photos Matthew.
The fish looks really healthy. I think it may still be a little young to display full adult coloration.
Also, it's possible that captive bred fish may not attain the same red color that a wild adult may arrive displaying.
I think of the wild Amphilophus labiatus adults that I used to import from Nicaragua for a comparison. Captive bred labiatus just never attain the same intensity of red color as wild collected stock.

I know that Asian bred forms of 'rotkeil' are more colorful upon receipt because they are fed hormone-inducing/color enhancing food for increased marketability.
The fish that you have was not exposed to these color enhancements. There is an opportunity to potentially see more color exhibited on a fish with propensity for red/orange coloration by feeding more freeze dried krill and pellets that advertise natural color enhancers (carotenoids, etc.) as well.

I hope that helps some with your questions or concerns.
Thanks again, jeff.


I’m still hoping that it matures into a more colorful Fish.
 
Jeff is correct. It takes up to two years for Heros to mature. Your fish definitely has a red shoulder, it’s just not very vibrant. It may darken and intensity as the fish ages, but that’s just a waiting game.
 
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So we've established it's not a hybrid, take that out of the equation. No rotkeils I've had were remotely Asian, none of them ever so much as sniffed a hormone their own bodies didn't produce naturally. So that's my lineage baseline.

As far as nutrition, yes, you can overfeed a fish on certain 'color enhancers' and get unnatural colors, but in themselves carotenoids are natural pigmented nutrients, important to health, and found in the plants, bugs, seeds, crustaceans, shellfish, algaes, other fish, etc. that any fish eats in the wild in the first place. In fact, many who pond raise their fish in the summer to feed naturally on the bugs, algae and whatever else nature provides say they get better color than their tank raised fish. How carotenoids affect coloration in an animal depends on it's natural biology; for example, red/orange carotenoids become blue in some fish due to the way they're bound to proteins, the same as blue crabs get their blue from orange/red carotenoids. Virtually all commercial fish foods have carotenoids in them, the better ones by virtue of their natural ingredients, compared with the preponderance of potato, rice, oat meal, feather meal, and similar ingredients in some cheaper foods. So normal premium foods that thousands of other guys also feed equals my feeding baseline.

Here's what I'm used to seeing in young rotkeils I've had-- roughly 9 year old video I dug up:
For the sake of size comparison, the wild female in the video was 8 inches. Was never a big fish photo guy and only ever did a couple of videos some years ago, largely because I didn't have much of a camera until recently, anyway, so video quality is mediocre. (Excuse the couple of odd peacocks, etc. in the tank, they just were temporary extras in a tank that was mostly for growouts, anyway.)

So, don't know, maybe you just have a little different individual, or if he looks normal to Jeff, maybe it's the parents he happens to have vs. the parents I had, but what's in the video is what I'm used to seeing.
 
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Have “orange shoulder severums” shown up near you? I have been seeing them with Great frequency and every store says they are rotkiels.

When 2 yrs later mine is green with red spots, orange fins and a blue face.
What could it be? Just an efasciatus?
 
Have “orange shoulder severums” shown up near you? I have been seeing them with Great frequency and every store says they are rotkiels.

When 2 yrs later mine is green with red spots, orange fins and a blue face.
What could it be? Just an efasciatus?
Hard to say without seeing them, but I've seen rotkeils called 'orange shoulder' before. Your description could be said of more than one type. Names can depend where you got it sometimes, not always correct or precise. I notice you're in Mass, I lived there in the 90s, don't know now, but at the time there were some high quality fish stores around, some that really knew their stuff.

Pretty safe to say that in my area very few people have heard of or seen rotkeil severums, it's pretty rural here :)