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Rotkeil Severum

The Rio Nanay has been listed for years as a collection location, I think the argument is if rotkeil have actually been collected there, or not? I have absolutely no idea, and always assumed they were indeed from the Rio Nanay (or at least found in the wild), but I think what Ryan is stating is that is now being questioned. I'm guessing that you have already read this, but just in case.

https://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19099
 
We are waiting to actually see pictures of them in the wild, or being collected in the wild. There have been thousands and thousands imported since the early 2000s and yet people who’ve gone looking for them cannot find them. Why? Even the Cichlid Room Companion says nothing about them.

Maybe they are wild, but they’d be the only cichlid being mass-exported that’s still got a secret location that lots of fisherman seem to know but is a mystery to scientists and researchers.

Also, is someone working to formally describe the fish? If so, it’s going to require data from their type locality.
 
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RD. said:
The Rio Nanay has been listed for years as a collection location, I think the argument is if rotkeil have actually been collected there, or not? I have absolutely no idea, and always assumed they were indeed from the Rio Nanay (or at least found in the wild), but I think what Ryan is stating is that is now being questioned. I'm guessing that you have already read this, but just in case.

https://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19099
Click to expand...
Right, I understood that. I've never joined CRC's forum, you could call me a lurker there, but I'd encountered that thread more than once. For my part I'm keeping an open mind, so I was interested to get Jeff's take on it.
 
@neutrino
This is an excellent thread with lots of great information. Maybe even sticky worthy.
I remember reading this when it was still active.
Has there been any new information come to light this year on the subject?
 
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On some FB cichlid groups I offered to get DNA analysis done on them if I could raise the funds but there was no serious interest in doing so. Now we wait for a scientist or fisherman to come along and document them either in the wild with a GPS location or with a paper formally describing them. I don’t know that anyone is working on that.

I’ve had one brief anecdote from a hobbyist in Peru. He goes by Christian Cichlid on Facebook. I will post what he wrote here:

“Remembering this interesting post. Recently, about a month ago, I had the opportunity to talk with a person who has contact with many Iquitos exporters. He travels constantly from Iquitos to Lima (the capital from Peru). Conversing in Lima. I have told me what was speculated here. He told me that the Heros sp rockteil are raised in rivers, streams in semi-natural controlled conditions around Iquitos. Now regarding how they got those colors, he doesn't know, but surely Heros severus is involved. I am a little disappointed since I am Peruvian and I would have liked Heros sp. Rockteil is a natural species or variety.”

Again, this is anecdotal, but then again so are all the other accounts of where rotkeil are found and if they are naturally-occurring or man made. Still waiting on some concrete proof. We have tons of underwater footage of other cichlids out there. Tons of collection photos of fish being pulled out of rivers. I’ve still only ever seen these in exporters’ tanks.
 
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+1, thanks for sharing that.

If H. severus is in the rotkeil lineage, rotkeils are not nearly as aggressive as you describe severus to be, at least not ime and I've had a LOT of rotkeils, including "wild". In fact I found them to be generally tolerant of both each other and other fish, even as adult pairs, as long as you don't try to put them in too small a tank. Rotkeils are also not especially fussy over pH or hardness, they certainly don't require blackwater conditions or low pH, as severus apparently do.
 
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I would think that since 50% of the blood was appendiculatus, it would only take a few generations of picking out the strongest fish and breeding them to get a fish that had the adaptability of appendiculatus. Also, I should note that people who bought F1 severus from me have reported that they’re less aggressive than their parents. H. severus will happily live and spawn in high pH/hardness and the fry will survive but I find that they’re sickly and most die off. This has been the experience of a couple other hobbyists breeding wilds. But with the addition of another species, that might change.

We may know more if I can ever get my severus to spawn with another species. I’ve been trying that but my males are not at all interested in non-severus females yet.
 
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