The true size of Arapaima gigas

[nishant_datta]

I find your reasonong to be highly illogical. If you don't know something exist doesn't mean it does. Evidence and intelligent deduction must then lead to educated assumptions. By your logic anything is possible becuase we don't know. This logical fallacy is called the argument from ignorance, 'Becuase we don't know it must be true"

If there is no clear evidence of something other than anectodal evidence the credence given to such evidence is insufficient to proof it beyond reasonable doubt.
The majority of what people believe to be true has nothing to do with evidence and the facts of a particular matter.
Evidence for a claims must be brought to bear by those who believe something to be true not only by those who dipute it.
The ball is clearly in the "Arapaima 5m largest fish in the world" peoples court to prove their claims and beliefs with credible 1st degree evidence
The earth was once flat and God created the Universe 7000 years ago.
Which many/most people believed/believe dispite no evidence to continue such beliefs and sufficient and clear evidence to support the contrary.
All I want is less claims and more evidence, Picutres, places, people.
I love big fish and would love this to be proofed true but with some credable evidence which support the claims of such fish.

Hmm, clearly you don't read between the lines. If read my reply again you'll probably not flame me in the manner you have done. I've said clearly in my post that :

I'm not saying that when a lot of people say something its correct. But hey until you prove the majority wrong, lets just go with them. Also, the one who propounds something should ideally prove the same and expect others to prove him wrong.


Now, in response I'd like to say it doesn't matter what you think is right or wrong or what in your opinion is correct or not. You are certainly not an authority on anything leave alone Arapaima gigas. I am sure you must have done a thorough research in South American river basins yourself but hey I am entitled to my own opinion.

When you participate in a discussion in a forum, try and express (and not impose) your views on others. If there's any credibility in your views they will be appreciated and accepted; otherwise not. I don't know if you have ever worked / researched on the arapaima gigas in their natural environment. If you have, then you are clearly an expert whose views must not be ignored. If you have not and have only been 'researching' on google from your home then you should atleast try raising an arapaima in captivity yourself to make sure that there's ample 'evidence' for you to ascertain this magnificent fish's true size. Then you can clearly ignore the so-called 'experts' or real researchers with practical and real life experience on the subject.

So far as argument of ignorance is concerned it is the most fundamental and universally accepted canon that the one who says / relies on a fact must prove it. When you say that the well established and 'considered to be authorities' web sites / portals are wrong then surely we can except to see some 'evidence' to the contrary which is not forthcoming from you.
Therefore, unless someone says that the arapaima cannot grow beyond 3 metres and proves the same with valid, acceptable and credible evidence, I am willing to believe that the earth is flat. Have a nice day and try not to take things so personally.

 

[BTB0923]

I have been truly enjoying reading the intelligent argument being held in this thread, but it is quickly turning into bickering. Please stay on topic and for the sake of the thread argue semantics elsewhere.

 

[Ramesh]

Hmm, clearly you don't read between the lines. If read my reply again you'll probably not flame me in the manner you have done. I've said clearly in my post that :

I'm not saying that when a lot of people say something its correct. But hey until you prove the majority wrong, lets just go with them. Also, the one who propounds something should ideally prove the same and expect others to prove him wrong.


Now, in response I'd like to say it doesn't matter what you think is right or wrong or what in your opinion is correct or not. You are certainly not an authority on anything leave alone Arapaima gigas. I am sure you must have done a thorough research in South American river basins yourself but hey I am entitled to my own opinion.

When you participate in a discussion in a forum, try and express (and not impose) your views on others. If there's any credibility in your views they will be appreciated and accepted; otherwise not. I don't know if you have ever worked / researched on the arapaima gigas in their natural environment. If you have, then you are clearly an expert whose views must not be ignored. If you have not and have only been 'researching' on google from your home then you should atleast try raising an arapaima in captivity yourself to make sure that there's ample 'evidence' for you to ascertain this magnificent fish's true size. Then you can clearly ignore the so-called 'experts' or real researchers with practical and real life experience on the subject.

So far as argument of ignorance is concerned it is the most fundamental and universally accepted canon that the one who says / relies on a fact must prove it. When you say that the well established and 'considered to be authorities' web sites / portals are wrong then surely we can except to see some 'evidence' to the contrary which is not forthcoming from you.
Therefore, unless someone says that the arapaima cannot grow beyond 3 metres and proves the same with valid, acceptable and credible evidence, I am willing to believe that the earth is flat. Have a nice day and try not to take things so personally.

No body is flaming you at all mate you shouldn't be so paranoid about a little constructive criticism of your post.
As for reading between the lines you should just write what you are thinking clearly, inferring meaning in such a forum is to difficult.
As for being an expert on Arapaima Gigga's no I am not but I am do have a Bachelor Degree in Science with a major in Zoology and Evolutionary Biology so I am well versed in the protocols of sciencific research and the dictinctions between it and anectodal evidence. As for the experts and researches you speak of who support the belief of 4-5m Arapaima who are they?? What paper/s do they make these claims or assumptions??
I have no doubts of the large size of this great species and you don't need to keep one realise this.
I have doubts about the upper size limit the species is said to be able to reach.
No one has seen a Arapaima reach such a size other the old unverified accounts.
Such accounts are often stated in modern litterature without checking the source or evidence used to support the claims. That is poor science and an example of the propagation of miss leading information. These types of errors in reporting are an all to common occurance in the so called information age where people google something and take it for granted as representing "science" with checking the source of the claims.
I believe Arapaima's can reach 3m maybe bigger why not it's to big a stretch from the upper limits seen today of between 2.5-2.7 but 4-5m is an astonishing claim.
All I question is from which evidence such claims are being based on and if they are verifiable?? Which is what true scientific reseach is about.
Please provide me with the "expets and reseachers" you talk of and I will egarly read the papers they have produced and the evidence they have based their claims on.

 

[catfishlover106]

Please Stay On Topic, Leave The Discussion Of Ones Statment Be Brought Through via. Private Message (PM)

 

[Ramesh]

The topic is "The true size of Arapaima Gigas" and the discusion is on topic because this discusion is trying to verify this post. I am extemely interested in this type of discusion and certainly bear no one ill will for holding different opinions.
I am an Aussie and I am a very laid back and easy going person and certainly don't take anything personally.
My backgroung and training in science has taught be a critical thinker and to not take things for granted, especially old unverified reccords of fish monster fish.
Acheloos has made many valid points which have been answered with no verifiable evidence of 4-5m fish.
I am waiting for expert evidence, research or pictures that supports the upper size limit many people proport to be true 4-5m.
That's all......there's no need to get excited and upset.
I am patiently waiting...................

 

[Ramesh]

I don't know if this has been posted already but it's worth looking at and I have checked out the claims it makes.
It's food for thought, enjoy.
http://www.megafishingthailand.com/content/view/168/53/

 

[nishant_datta]

this debate can only be conclusively determined once someone working in the 'field' (natural environment) finds and clicks something as big as are claimed to exist. But 3m + still seems quite possible.

anyway, there are many contenders less spoken of for the crown of largest fresh water including wels catfish (my fav) and chinese paddlefish (clearly the longest if not 'largest'). but these are stated to be close to extinction. mekong giant catfish are weigh a lot.

lets just cheer for our favourite one and hope that someday some angler or researcher will find that record catch.

take care all.

 

[Zoodiver]

Here is a copy of an email I have sent to the 'Dallas World Aquarium' asking them for information about their Arpaima. When I recieve some correspondence I will post it.
If there are any other sources of actual size confirmation please contact these sources and ask for evidence.

"Hello my name is Ramesh Presser and I live in Melbourne Australia. I am doing some research on Arapaima gigas a fish species you have at your aquarium.
I am interested to know the size of your specimens and for how long you have had them?? Also the age of these fish.
These fish are claimed to be the largest fresh water fish species and I am trying to compile credable evidence of the actual size of specimens kept in different facilities around the world.
Any information and help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Ramesh Presser"

Who did you send it to? If it went the to general info email address, don't expect to get a reply. Zoos and Aquariums get dozens of emails and calls every day of questions like this.

 

[Acheloos]

Ramesh, the article you found is actually the one I posted on the first post. I wrote this article for megafishingthailand some time ago.
Nishand_datta: You can actually forgot the wels. We have here a very similar case to those of Arapaima gigas. A small handfull of very old and unconfirmed found their way into literature and were copied without further research again and again. The wels actually grows quite big, but not as big as you can often read. The largest specimens are somewhere between 2,5 and 3m, with the biggest actually confirmed specimen of 2,78m.

 

[Ramesh]

Who did you send it to? If it went the to general info email address, don't expect to get a reply. Zoos and Aquariums get dozens of emails and calls every day of questions like this.

I think you may be right Zoodiver but if you know who we can contact to find confirmation of these 4-5m speciems existing it would go a long way to answering the question we are discussing.
I have also contacted a contributor to an anticle written about the sustainability and conservation of the Arapaima in the Amazon basin asking for his opinion and knowledge of such size claims for the Arapaima being true or even possible.
http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...AF2C7B0EAF.tomcat1?fromPage=online&aid=333489

You have posted a pic of a 2m specimen which is great but not near to the 14ft you have claimed to have worked with. Such a animal must be recorded for scientific purposes as it would represent a significant confirmation of a claim.
Please get to work mate because such things are truely exciting due to their ground breaking nature.