The true size of Arapaima gigas

[FishingThailand]

Just to add a point Spotted Gar. I dont who/what you are referring to when you suggest that there are manipulated pictures around. the links to the two pictures I posted are distorted or at least I should hope not! They where taken with a $3000 camera! To give you some perpestive for the fish in the second photo which is of a fish in the 185kg to 200kg Bracket, the combined weight of the 3 men holding the fish is 51 stone or around 714lb. Does this help?

I agree that its unlikely any Arapaima will go 4mtrs, and 3 is a push, even for a 400lb fish, that was really the point I was trying to make.

 

[mkman]

I trust zoodiver and what he says BUT I would like to see pics. Also were these estimates or did you measure them? Sometimes fish look bigger than they really are but I would trust Zoodiver.

 

[FishingThailand]

"Also were these estimates or did you measure them?"

Ahh an intelligent question at last, and really the whole point that I am trying to make. The IGFA require measurements, length and girth, and photographic evidence to substantiate claims. An independant witness is also required, that is why most big fish captures dont qualify, there is missing evidence.

So in answer to your question. The world record of 86kg is wieghed and measured, at 86kg, 72inches long, 42 inches wide and has been independantly verified. So 72" is 1.83mtrs. So can 80cms add a 100kgs of weight to a fish? Perhaps someone more qualified than me can answer that question. I would guess the big Arapaima we captured in January was at least 50% longer again, and had a 60inch+ girth, so once again this suggests a length of at least 107inches or 2.71mtrs.

So a pattern seems to be immerging doesnt it? The average size of a fully grown Arapaima seems to be around 2.6 to 2.8mtrs,as others here have implied.

However my suggestion for everyone speculating on the ceiling length and wieght consider the simple fact that so many fish that have have been far more of a target for sport than Arapaima have (until recent years) had records standing for many years but then have been broken repeatedly, until in the end limits start to get set. I dont think we are anywhere near it with the Arapaima yet. The next record will take the verified wieght and length for the Arapaima to around 2.7 to 2.8mtrs and 185kgs as a number of fish this size have been taken recently and as far as us here in Thailand are concerned that is FACT.

The fish that follows will be in the definition of "freak" becuase it will push just beyond 3mtrs and weigh around 230kg to 250kg, and will be one of these "unsubstantiated fish" that become part of myth or gossip in all circles of people taking an interest, just like what is happening on this thread!

This is nothing more than a prediction, but it is a prediction that is based in fact, as this has happened with so many of the worlds sporting fish species. My prediction is the freak fish will come out of Thailand, either from Gillhams Fishing Resort or Bungsamran. Both venues alreay have numerous specimens hitting the adult average size of 160kg to 185kg, all we need is a little genetics or diet to come into play and then a typically 2.6 to 2.8mtrs is going to stretch to a legendary size. (The owner of one of the venues repeatly tells me he has ONE OR TWO FISH out of some 50 adults beyond 10ft now! So there ya go...a really big Arapaima is going to be about 3mtr

 

[Acheloos]

The average size of adult arapaimas is surely not 2,6-2,8m. If this would be the case, there would be masses of such fishes, which is not the case. The ichthyologist Karl-Heinz Lüling who examined the arapaima in its south-american habitat could not find a single one over 2,40m.
You should also not forget, that the arapaimas in the fishing-ponds in Thailand probably grow better than in the rainforest-rivers.
BTW, even if the official world-record arapaima was caught in Thailand, there are many really documented specimens which were much larger. The reason why I doubtet your statement was just very very low size of this specimen, and I could hardly believe that this is already record. A much larger one was caught in Brazl by the famous Czech angler Jacub Vagner. You can see some photos of the 2,49m and 130kg specimen, including a photo of the scale with which it was weighed:
http://www.jakubvagner.cz/en/5-world-record
This is a very interesting case because we have here respectable photos and dates about length and weight. So we can use them also to get a vague idea about length-weight-relations of bigger fish. Using this proportions, a 3m arapima would weigh around 225kg.

 

[Ramesh]

LOL,

I really do have to laugh at you lot! The statments I make are FACTS, not speculation. YES our client holds the world record for the Arapaima, (although a claim for a 130kg specimen is now pending I believe, or may have been accepted,but non the less this is still a small fish) its the All Tackle Class Record , the fish was 86kgs and 72 inches long and 42 inches at its widest. The previous record was 83kg out of Ecuador and it stood as a record for some 13 years.

Heres the International Game Fishing Association Certificate.

I didnt come to the forum to claim bragging rights! The purpose was to try and help you lot decypher the bull from the truth, take it from people who know becuase they handle the species regulary. Now reread my previous post in this context.

I am laughing too because you think your piece of paper means you have caught the largest Arapaima .
http://www.megafishingthailand.com/content/view/158/58/

Bigger fish have been caught and indeed exist and that is also a fact.
The question we're trying to establish is the upper size limit of the fish, which from all available evidence is an over exaggeration that has never be verified.

 

[FishingThailand]

Ramesh, Im laughing too! At your inability to read!

Of course I didnt post the world record to imply we caught the biggest fish, quite the opposite,the point I was illustrating is that at present the IGFA is the only mechanism by which the general public can believe claims that are published.(although even that is debatable it seems!)

In the angling industry everyone understands the difference between official records and simply unverified claims. We have caught at least 3 Arapaima twice the size of the current world record in the last year, and dozens of fish over a 100kg, the problem is its dangerous for the fish to wiegh them.

Also I am not sure why you cite the link your citing, this is a "news" site, so is third or fourth hand informationand that particular link is very old news! The news is created by those catching the fish or those that own them.

The biggest Arapaima captured anywhere in the world is certainly not any of the ones you are using as frames of reference and that was the whole point I was trying to make.

86kgs is nothing, 130kgs is nothing, 180kg+ 2.6MTR plus Arapaima are common here in Thailand and I know of at least 4 fisheries that hold them right now, and two fisheries that are likely to hold slightly bigger fish.

Acheloos, you make the point about Karl Hienz, but you miss the point! The biggest Arapaima do not reside in the wild, again this is common knowledge in our industry and probably in the commercial aquarium trade to. The average size of FULLY grown adults here in Thailand is generallly accepted as being larger than their Latin American bretheran.

If you don't believe poor little ol' me why dont you send an Email to Gillhams Fishing Resorts? The owner Stuart has handled more Arapaima than anyone in the world, and has spent many $100,000s of dollars buying up Thailand's biggest Arapaima from private owners, and fish farmers who hold breeding pairs. Stuart is considered the authority in the industry, and if you communicate with him or watch what is captured at his fishery in any given month then maybe you guys will learn something about this fish. But based on the intellect of some of the comments posted here, dont expect him to allow you to do free research for your doctorates!

 

[FishingThailand]

PS: I should add, anyone who goes into the wild to target an endangered species and is then instrumental in that specimens death, is not the definition of an angler in my books. To then use a dead fish for publicity or claim a record is even worse!

 

[Ramesh]

The point is you are tell us all nothing new.
I found that "old news" with a single google search proving that your current IGFA records means squat in the real world.
All news has to come from a source, that is what reporting the news is all about.
The only important question is the accuracy of what is being reported not if it is first or second hand evidence.
Are you questioning the accuracy of the story and the size of the fish??
Otherwise there is nothing wrong with the source or the story.
All the "old news story" shows is that your 2008 records is irrelevent.
Is IGFA debatable?.....IGFA is 100% debatable, as it is clearly not indicative of the fish people in the industry are able to catch regularly.
As for it being the "only" mechanism for the public to judge facts from fiction as you falsely claim, it is not.
People can google many of the Thai fishing sites or visit one of the large public aquaria in the States to see first hand evidence.
The fact the IGFA doesn't know that it's record isn't worth the paper it's written on shows that the "evidence" you rely on as the official (first hand) and verified (IGFA) as "fact"(86.28kg) are wrong.

I am sure we are on the same page with Arapaima being a huge fish who's adult size is often over estimated and shouldn't be harmed just to claim an official new record size.
Yes you are 100% right like Achloos that Thailand will and probably does hold the largest possible fish some where in one of it's lakes.

 

[Acheloos]

FishingThailand, if you had read my posts properly, you had seen that I don´t doubt that the biggest arapaimas will most probably don´t come from south america, but from Thailand or anywhere else in Asia, I mentioned this already before you joined this thread.
But anyway, it is still important to document those giants. There is allways a lot of hearsay and tell-tales in angling, and in many cases, there are a lot of exagerations. Today nearly everybody owns a camera, and it is no problem to make photos, and I don´t mean photos with forced perspective, but photos which show a clear size relation at best with a tape. The issue of weight is a problem, and of course it is not easy to weigh such a big fish, especially when you practice catch-and-release. But there is still a lot on inaccuracy about estimated weights, and I suppose they are often overestimated.

 

[FishingThailand]

OK, now we seem to be starting to get somewhere. I am telling you something new Ramesh, becuase you are looking at images of fish claimed to be 185kg, and implying its accurate. I am telling you it is not, and the reason i know is becuase I know for fact we have captured bigger fish and I would struggle to claim them to be 185kg.

My whole point from the start is that people are over estimating the size of their catches. I certainly consider the IGFA as an official record keeping body as "lacking credibility" for reasons I cannot state publicy for fear of a law suit! The Arapaima record is the only record we have assisted clients claiming becuase it was an experiment for us in testing the integrity of the IGFA, and it was an interesting exercise!

All I know is that some of the fish you guys are citing as credible or verfiable examples are highly likely to be considerably lighter than the quoted weights claimed for them. I also know for a fact that several fish our guests have captured in the last year illustrate that point quite eloquantly! If we catch a fish that we consider to be say 160kg....but its clearly much larger than one others with supposed credibility are claiming is 185kg. What are we to do? You see this was the whole point I am trying to make. One of you guys talks about a 185kg fish of 2.63mtrs as being fully reported and "factual". I can tell you if that fish wieghed 185kg then others caught elsewhere in Thailand weighed well over 200kg!!! But that is not what I believe. What I believe is that if you reduce the estimated weight by around 20% to 25% your gettng closer to the mark, so a mature 2.63mtr fish is maybe more like 150kg/160kg. a 2.7+ fish might typically be 185kg which i think is getting to the size limit for anything other than a couple of overfed or genetic freaks, and sooner or later someone is going to catch one of those and will be wieghed and measure properly. The arapaima will never be the worlds largest freshwater fish with a ceiling weight of perhaps less than 500lb.