Whats wrong with dinosaur reconstruction?

[koltsixx]

Valid points. I too would like to see exactly what that structural difference is along with any scientific papers that support the theory as I have yet to find any.

On a different note, I know that the modern African savannah comparison (cheetahs, lions, & hyenas) has come up when it comes to Spinosaurus, Carcharodontosaurus, and whatever smaller predators there were, but the issue that comparison is there's no evidence of Carcharodontosaurus or Spinosaurus hunting in packs however there certainly is enough evidence to indicate that they mainly preyed upon different food sources presumably to avoid a potentially fatal interaction with each other.

Personally, I would like to see what Paul Sereno, a paleontologist who specializes in African dinosaurs including Carcharodontosaurus, would say in regards to some of these theories considering that he appears to be on the leading edge of African dinosaur experts.

I would as well I may look him up on google and see what he's got out there, maybe I can have something shipped to Barnes and Noble if he's got a book out. As far the comparison I was making with other savannah animals mine was more based on jaw structure and feeding habits. I was personally assuming that Carcharodontosaurus had a bite like a hyena. Sharp teeth combined with a crushing jaw much like T rex. I definitely know more about T rex than Carcharodon. Still I've been all over the net and have yet to see them being described as eating or attacking this way.

As far as them coming across each other I imagined it happened from time to time but rarely and as stated by many paleontologists they would avoid a confrontation with each other as most apex predators do. Apex preds usually only come into conflict over kills and would only subject themselves to combat under these conditions. Otherwise they don't go out hunting each other they hunt prey that poses less of a threat to them. It's like watching the discovery channel, wild cats avoid each other unless one has made a kill and the other wishes to try and take it away. Also in most cases they don't really fight, they feign and bluff and give half hearted strikes in an attempt to scare off the competitor. I imagine the same would happen with these 2 dino's, and if present day animal interactions are any indicator the 2 ton advantage would cause the Carcharodon to back down because of the intimidation factor of size. When a lion meets a jaguar usually the Jaguar gives way with little fight because of the size factor. This is despite the fact that pound for pound Jags are stronger than most cats and more agile than a male lion and could probably at least hold it's own if not win. The size of the lion and it's mane do it's job. It gives the lion a intimidating look of size and strength that few animals are willing to test.

In the case of the sailfin dragon, only the male has such a large sail, and the female has a far smaller sail. There's also a remarkable difference in color as adult males tend to have a lot of bright cobalt blue on them while females are a bit more subdued in coloration.

Maybe there is a difference in sail size between the male Spinosaurus and the female Spinosaurus provided that the structure is indeed a sail?

A good inference and one I also thought. I mentioned it earlier that the sail could be used as a display in courtship. Perhaps it would be bigger in males or perhaps more colorful. I even compared them to peacocks since Darius doesn't like me comparing them to reptiles.lol!

 

[MN_Rebel]

The reason why I mentioned the modern African savannah comparison is because nearly all big predators have different prefered prey items (and also different environments in same area).

 

[00rollins]

I finally read the wiki page related to this, basically exact info from this thread and all in assumption, the only thing I read there that I was thinking about and hasnt been mentioned is if a sail the use to make appearance larger and more intimidating,

Sent from my GT-P7510 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App

 

[koltsixx]

The reason why I mentioned the modern African savannah comparison is because nearly all big predators have different prefered prey items (and also different environments in same area).

In my opinion a good point as far as inferring a similar relationship back then. In order to be a successful predator you may share some prey items, but logically you'd have a preference as there'd be too much competition if everyone hunted the same thing, and that would lead to one super pred. One who is the most specialized and that's not the case here. They all had their advantages and one could assume it was to hunt different prey. Spino from everything I read was crocodilian like in habit. Capable of taking on land animals, but specializing in water probably some type of piscivore. Darius also suggested they didn't hunt prey that was a challenge for their teeth like a giant armored fish. Something I don't agree with. Dino's developed size at least carnivores to handle large prey. Being as large as Spino was their had to be some advantage in it's hunting technique to account for the larger size, at least in my opinion.

 

[Wiggles92]

Okay, had to double check on the African savannah comparison; I couldn't remember exactly why the comparison was being made.

I definitely agree on the preferred prey and avoiding conflict parts; I'm not so sure on whether it was more like a hyena or a cheetah/leopard or a lion, though.

Also, if I remember correctly, someone said that Tyrannosaurus rex was larger than Carcharodontosaurus which is partly true in this case. There are two species of Carcharodontosaurus: C. saharicus and C. igiduensis; C. saharicus is roughly the same size as T. rex while C. igiduensis is slightly larger. Of the two species, C. saharicus has the stronger bite force while C. igiduensis has a more flexible set of jaws; these differences could have made a difference in their hunting methods.

 

[Wiggles92]

In my opinion a good point as far as inferring a similar relationship back then. In order to be a successful predator you may share some prey items, but logically you'd have a preference as there'd be too much competition if everyone hunted the same thing, and that would lead to one super pred. One who is the most specialized and that's not the case here. They all had their advantages and one could assume it was to hunt different prey. Spino from everything I read was crocodilian like in habit. Capable of taking on land animals, but specializing in water probably some type of piscivore. Darius also suggested they didn't hunt prey that was a challenge for their teeth like a giant armored fish. Something I don't agree with. Dino's developed size at least carnivores to handle large prey. Being as large as Spino was their had to be some advantage in it's hunting technique to account for the larger size, at least in my opinion.

This kind of just dawned on me, but Spinosaurus has jaws similar to those of a false gharial (Tomistoma schlegelii) which is a species of crocodile; amusingly enough, a search using the terms "false gharial bite force" turns up a discussion on the bite force of Spinosaurus as the first result.

Anyway, crocodiles have the strongest bite force out of any animal, so one could potentially extrapolate that to infer that Spinosaurus also had an extremely powerful bite, right?

 

[MN_Rebel]

This kind of just dawned on me, but Spinosaurus has jaws similar to those of a false gharial (Tomistoma schlegelii) which is a species of crocodile; amusingly enough, a search using the terms "false gharial bite force" turns up a discussion on the bite force of Spinosaurus as the first result.

Anyway, crocodiles have the strongest bite force out of any animal, so one could potentially extrapolate that to infer that Spinosaurus also had an extremely powerful bite, right?

Kinda of true but false gharial/slender-snouted crocodilians have a slightly weaker bite force than say saltwater or nile crocodile. However the crocodilians have one thing that Spinosaurus doesn't have is their jaw muscles around in the neck region.

 

[koltsixx]

Also, if I remember correctly, someone said that Tyrannosaurus rex was larger than Carcharodontosaurus which is partly true in this case. There are two species of Carcharodontosaurus: C. saharicus and C. igiduensis; C. saharicus is roughly the same size as T. rex while C. igiduensis is slightly larger. Of the two species, C. saharicus has the stronger bite force while C. igiduensis has a more flexible set of jaws; these differences could have made a difference in their hunting methods.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I pointed that out to Darius before as well, that the largest Carcharodon was barely bigger than a T rex while Spino out weighed T rex by about 2 tons. Still I like the fact that your answer was way more in depth and detailed than mine. It offers info. to those who don't know and hopefully captures their interest.

This kind of just dawned on me, but Spinosaurus has jaws similar to those of a false gharial (Tomistoma schlegelii) which is a species of crocodile; amusingly enough, a search using the terms "false gharial bite force" turns up a discussion on the bite force of Spinosaurus as the first result.

Anyway, crocodiles have the strongest bite force out of any animal, so one could potentially extrapolate that to infer that Spinosaurus also had an extremely powerful bite, right?

I totally agree that is decent inference and one I had thought, but didn't say publicly on here. I appreciate you mentioning what you googled as I'm going to google that right now, and that's what this thread should really be about. Offering up info. and hopefully teaching someone something and you just did as I didn't know about the similarities between specifically Tomistoma and the Spino. I knew comparisons where made, but never knew the exact species it was compared to. So thanx on that one bro.

Wiggles do you happen to keep any herps?

 

[koltsixx]

Kinda of true but false gharial/slender-snouted crocodilians have a slightly weaker bite force than say saltwater or nile crocodile. However the crocodilians have one thing that Spinosaurus doesn't have is their jaw muscles around in the neck region.

From what I've seen you seem to be knowledgeable in this area, so I'm asking this question just for my personal education. How do you know they had less substantial jaw muscles? Where did you see that info? and what else was said in the article. I find Spino a very interesting carnivore and would appreciate any info. I could get regarding them. By the way I'm also a big fan of Mosasaurus and Carcharodon Megalodon do you have any info. regarding them?

I actually have a collection of Megalodon teeth and armatus teeth.lol! Been saving up to get the really big ones though which can be costly. Small true teeth fossils can be fairly affordable under 3 inch teeth of Megalodon go for about $30.

 

[MN_Rebel]

From what I've seen you seem to be knowledgeable in this area, so I'm asking this question just for my personal education. How do you know they had less substantial jaw muscles? Where did you see that info? and what else was said in the article. I find Spino a very interesting carnivore and would appreciate any info. I could get regarding them. By the way I'm also a big fan of Mosasaurus and Carcharodon Megalodon do you have any info. regarding them?

I actually have a collection of Megalodon teeth and armatus teeth.lol! Been saving up to get the really big ones though which can be costly. Small true teeth fossils can be fairly affordable under 3 inch teeth of Megalodon go for about $30.

I just recently watch Nature's Giants where a nile crocodile dies and they do an autopsy on this nile crocodile...it has massive jaw muscles behind the skull.