I've never had a bad experience with Massivore. Then again, whenever someone enters my basement they say the smell of fish hits them in the face and It doesn't bother me. Could be the same with the Massivore.
Hikari vs. NLS
- Thread starter Biggfeast
- Start date
I've been slowly moving my fish away from Hikari pellets simply because I've got so much NLS. Anyone that has seen me post up my fishes dietry schedule knows my fish are spoilt little buggers.
Over the past 12 months I have been gradually reducing (but not entirely!) the amount of Hikari dry products I feed for one main reason:
The pellets are too big. Now I know half of your complaints are about NLS pellets being too small, and yes that is definitely the case for your monster Americans and those that feed Massivore, but even the Cichlid Gold Mini pellets are way too large for the majority of medium sized Americans. Sure they can fit them in their mouth, but 1mm pellets are much more suited to fish under 6". Whenever I feed Hikari, they're crushed using a Mortar and Pestle.
I still mix in Cichlid Gold and Excel to my fishes diet about once a week, crushed of course, but other than their Micro-Wafers and Micro-Pellet lines and of course their wonderful Bio-Pure frozen products I won't be buying the Hikari products as staples any more.
Over the past 12 months I have been gradually reducing (but not entirely!) the amount of Hikari dry products I feed for one main reason:
The pellets are too big. Now I know half of your complaints are about NLS pellets being too small, and yes that is definitely the case for your monster Americans and those that feed Massivore, but even the Cichlid Gold Mini pellets are way too large for the majority of medium sized Americans. Sure they can fit them in their mouth, but 1mm pellets are much more suited to fish under 6". Whenever I feed Hikari, they're crushed using a Mortar and Pestle.
I still mix in Cichlid Gold and Excel to my fishes diet about once a week, crushed of course, but other than their Micro-Wafers and Micro-Pellet lines and of course their wonderful Bio-Pure frozen products I won't be buying the Hikari products as staples any more.
Good post.japes;3658434; said:
I agree. I find the fish much healthier when fed on small pellets. They can't gorge themselves in a few seconds. It's much more natural for most of our fish to graze over time. I've even setup auto-feeders to feed five or six times a day, small amounts of course.
The piscivores are a notable exception. They are "made" to take big, chunky foods.
No problem greenterra, I completely understand where you're coming from, and you haven't been rude in the least. But I don't preach as you put it, everywhere.
I sponsor a single local online forum (my way of giving back to the local community) and once in awhile I'll post in a thread such as this one. I'm rather certain this discussion isn't going to boost my sales up here in Canada.
I have no problem with those that choose Hikari, or any other brand to feed their fish, you either haven't been reading my comments closely, or simply aren't picking up what I'm laying down. There's a much bigger picture here, and unfortunately you seem to be blinded by the fact that the messenger has a financial interest in this. Let's be honest, anyone associated with any pet food product has a financial interest in the subject, but that still doesn't change the facts.
Go back to where I entered this discussion & re-read my initial comment.
I used Hikari for years, and have tested most other brands in my tanks, so I too am speaking from experience, and not just from a scientific basis. I have never once stated that Hikari won't produce nice looking healthy fish. Not once, ever. Nor have I ever suggested that anyone that is happy with their food of choice, needs to, or even should, change.
And Red0 ......... if you actually took the time to read what I post, you'd know that I have never once stated that Hikari is crap, nor have I even remotely implied such a thing. I was feeding Hikari before you & your buddy Sinatra were even born. ha
Imagine if all of the major dog food manufacturers of the world still used the same raw ingredients as they did back in the 1960's. The scary part is that in some cases this is exactly what is still taking place with certain foods designed for fish.
Here's a good read on the history of commercial dog food.
http://www.for-petes-sake.com/HistoryofDogFood.pdf
And note near the end where the author states:
The exact same principles apply to fish food, yet are seemingly still ignored by many manufacturers, fish food manufacturers that protect their bottom line by using large inclusion rates of carbs/starch, some that are also in the 60% (and up) range.
Take a look at the primary raw ingredients found in the following so called "premium" grade fish food.
Ingredients: wheat flour, fish meal, soybean meal, hydrolyzed feather meal, brine shrimp,corn gluten meal, fish oil.
Premium is the last thing I would use to describe such a food, yet the crude protein content is still 43%.
Or how about this Tropical Fish feed, with 45% crude protein:
Ingredients
I sponsor a single local online forum (my way of giving back to the local community) and once in awhile I'll post in a thread such as this one. I'm rather certain this discussion isn't going to boost my sales up here in Canada.
I have no problem with those that choose Hikari, or any other brand to feed their fish, you either haven't been reading my comments closely, or simply aren't picking up what I'm laying down. There's a much bigger picture here, and unfortunately you seem to be blinded by the fact that the messenger has a financial interest in this. Let's be honest, anyone associated with any pet food product has a financial interest in the subject, but that still doesn't change the facts.
Go back to where I entered this discussion & re-read my initial comment.
I used Hikari for years, and have tested most other brands in my tanks, so I too am speaking from experience, and not just from a scientific basis. I have never once stated that Hikari won't produce nice looking healthy fish. Not once, ever. Nor have I ever suggested that anyone that is happy with their food of choice, needs to, or even should, change.
And Red0 ......... if you actually took the time to read what I post, you'd know that I have never once stated that Hikari is crap, nor have I even remotely implied such a thing. I was feeding Hikari before you & your buddy Sinatra were even born. ha
Imagine if all of the major dog food manufacturers of the world still used the same raw ingredients as they did back in the 1960's. The scary part is that in some cases this is exactly what is still taking place with certain foods designed for fish.
Here's a good read on the history of commercial dog food.
http://www.for-petes-sake.com/HistoryofDogFood.pdf
And note near the end where the author states:
Also note the portion of the article about digestibility.
The exact same principles apply to fish food, yet are seemingly still ignored by many manufacturers, fish food manufacturers that protect their bottom line by using large inclusion rates of carbs/starch, some that are also in the 60% (and up) range.
Take a look at the primary raw ingredients found in the following so called "premium" grade fish food.
Ingredients: wheat flour, fish meal, soybean meal, hydrolyzed feather meal, brine shrimp,corn gluten meal, fish oil.
Premium is the last thing I would use to describe such a food, yet the crude protein content is still 43%.
Or how about this Tropical Fish feed, with 45% crude protein:
Ingredients
: Dehulled Soybean Meal, Fishmeal, Wheat Middlings, Hydrolyzed Feather Meal, Fish Oil, Corn Gluten Meal, Shrimp Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast.
Here's another, that has 42% crude protein:
Ingredients: Corn Gluten Meal, Poultry Meal, Herring Meal, Herring Oil, Soybean Meal, Wheat Middlings, Wheat Flour, Poultry Fat.
I don't think that posting flaws with regards to certain ingredients, such as soybean meal, corn flakes, dried bakery products, or MSG, is the same as calling a company, or their products crap. I'm simply asking for more accountability from some of these manufacturers, and as previously stated this is in everyone's best interest, no matter what formula or brand they use, or what type of pet they are feeding.
Sinatra aka Master of Puppets - correcting false or misleading information does not equate to attacking, nor does supplying information such as I have in this discussion equate to pushing, anything. I realize that being 15 yrs old in today's world isn't always easy, but please try to control yourself when you take part in discussions held on public forums. You never know, your mom could walk in the room & read some of this.
With regards to pellet size, choosing the correct pellet size is also very important. If the pellet is too large not only will the fish chew & spit (causing unwanted pollution - and wasting $$$) but if the pellet is too large, it will affect the overall digestibility of the food. No different than if you or I swallowed a large chunk of meat without chewing it properly first. I have found that a lot of hobbyists (in a rush to see large growth gains) move their juvenile fish up to a larger pellet long before they should be. Doing so can actually be counter productive to optimum growth.
HTH
Biggfeast;3660066; said:
I use Eheim autofeeders. I tried three or four others and settled on the Eheims. I especially like how they are programmable to feed "X" number of rotations "X" times a day.
