Aquarium Sump Calculator

[Jgray152]

Justin, don't take it like you are being tag teamed, even though it looks that way. When you pioneer a new concept, you get to be the guy that has to defend the ideas. That is what peer review is all about. It can seem quite brutal, but if the theories stand in the end then everyone will know they are solid.

I must say, I am the type that tend to argue to uphold my concept. Its just my nature I suppose.

It is always good to know what the minimum sump size is, but it never hurts to go bigger. There are a number of additional variables that would have to be addressed before saying that a particular size is the absolute minimum.

Absolutly, I agree with everything here. When I state minimum, I by do not mean, absolute minimum. Its the "safe and more than functional" minimum. Stocking levels vary greatly as does the waste produced by different fish so there is no way you can calculate a absolutle minimum.

Another variable that needs to be addressed before nailing down a minimum volume is the media type. They all have different ratios of volume to surface area. One word of caution when using the information in the sticky thread is that the surface areas are given in square feet but in reality the measurements are actually square inches. The other problem with the sticky information is that it doesn't account for packing density. 'Fluffy' medias such as Bio-Bale are given a single surface area to volume ratio. When the sump is full of Bio-Bale, you can actually double what is already in there by packing it in tighter. Scrubbies are also subject to packing (my sump packed on its own to allow another 30% more).

CPR Aquatics, the makers of bio bale (which I use) say that packing it will decrease its efficency. I agree with them. Packing it tighter too will limit the volume of water as well. Less area for the water to flow if packed to tight. Although, this would have to be very tight.

Agree with what you said.

 

[Dr Joe]

You asked what I thought and I gave my professional judgment. I didn't come here to argue. I do this sort of thing professionally and you ask "Have you measured the amount of media in properly built sumps" and to "and tell me to read your posts" ...Well I have and have still come to the same conclusion.

So I find it better to let you grow on your own as you really didn't want to know what I thought.

Take care, enjoy the forums and you'll find CHOMPERS a good source of information too so don't loose that one.

Sincerely,

Dr Joe

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[Jgray152]

First I did not know you built these professionaly.

Second, not saying that you are doing anything wrong, but you are still using the "rule" and trying to tell me its the only right way of figuring the sump size.

I have seen your knowledge on the forums and it does top over mine, but we must be open to the fact that there can be better and more accurate ways of designing something.

When you post things like; "Not useful info. It gave me the same answer for 55g as well as 168g and please don't say they would be the same."

How do you not expct me to talk against words like this?

BTW, right now I am fixing the flaw in the calc I have posted above. Since Precision Marine says 76 liters for 200-400 gallons and CPR says 90 liters is good up to 400 gallons, I am taking the figure 80 liters and using that to shut off calculations for tanks that don't hold enough media for 400 gallons, 600 Gallons (120 Liters), 800 Gallons (160 liters) etc. I am using that figure for a beta test run and to get the proper mathematics into Excel.

 

[Jgray152]

I am taking the figure 80 liters

I was thinking backwards here. I am going to be using 92 liters. It appears .225 liters per gallon is sufficient.

 

[Ramesh]

Thats the rule that really annoys me because you dont need all of the volume. You really don't

What do you mean when you say "you got nadda"? Did it not work for you? The Demo version will only find 5 pre determined sizes for you. It lets you know if you can use that size or not.

There is a big difference when looking a sump design. Especially when figuring dimensions to use.
A 48x24x24 will hold more water at a 6" water level in the sump then a 24x24x48 which will hold much less.
The 48x24x24 can hold LESS aquarium siphone water than the 24x24x48 sump. Both hold the same amount 119 gallons but may not be able to be use on the same thanks.

This is where the ASC comes in handy. The 1/3 rule does not perform this, I have to look further into this rule, but it could lead to overflows for smaller tanks... its just an assumption as of now but I will be looking into this further.

The point of this calc is to tell people what the minimum size sump they can use and get rid of the 1/3 volume because its giving people the wrong impression. The point of a large sump is to hold all the water which gets siphoned out from the aquarium when the pump shut off.

The impression its giving is, Sump really suck and biological filtration so you need a TON MORE than a canister needs....

In a 65 Gallon Sump, I can design it to have over 650 liters of bio media. That is a CRAP LOAD! You don't need more than that.

You go larger to support the volume of water that needs to by siphoned from the tank during a pump shut down.

O.K. then if the 1/3 rule is not always necessary what size sump would you recommend for a 500g tank??
I wanted to use two 55g sumps (48x16x16).

 

[Ramesh]

100L sump??

 

[Jgray152]

What are the dimensions of the 500gal tank?

 

[Ramesh]

What are the dimensions of the 500gal tank?

8'x4'x2' (LxWxH) but it's actually going to be 240cm x 120cm x 70cm and I am having the water level at 65cm.
It's 1872L or 495gal.

 

[Jgray152]

How many inches below the water level will the output/intake be? So I can calculate the amount of water which will be siphoned from the tank during a pump shut down. Forgot to post that question, sorry.

 

[wow_it_esploded]

I do not have the time to download this and check it out, but I do have a few things to say.

Unless you are factoring in the type of media and it's surface area, I would pretty much say that you cannot calculate the size of the sump. The only part of the size of the sump that you can calculate (generically... like without knowing the complete ammonia produced per day, or the oxygen levels, etc) is the amount of room required for flowback. I do say that I have a 20 gallon sump on my 75 gallon tank. I get about 1.25 gallons (160 ounces) of water flowback. I have about 8 ounces from the return, and the rest from the overflow.

A simple hole just under the water level can prevent flow back from the return, other than what is in teh plumbing.

For the poster with the 495 gallon tank, then I would suggest a 100 gallon tank (or larger, if you like) for your sump with an external biotower. Like a biotower that sticks out of the tank as much as possible so you can have more water in the sump without submerging the media, giving the bacteria their oxygen.