see above quote... I am redJgray152;2730297; said:Hello WIE ( to lazy to type in the full name but I am not to lazy to type this message or the rest of this post, go figured... lol) That is how I am, you can call me John, if you would like... But WIE is fine too.
If my posts come off a-holish, don't think its direct at you, its just how I word them. I agree and understand with everything you have said above.
I do not think that they did
Understand what you are saying, I would never have 100L in a 30 gallon tank either and the calc will not allow this. I calculate for different compartment and give a "rough" dimension measurement for the calc to go buy when figuring how large of an aquarium the sump should be used on in comparison with the bio volume.
Why wouldnt you have 100L in a 30 gallon tank?
Thanks for posting this information. This will be greatly helpful through out the design of the ASC.
Why, gee golly, your welcome!
Can you give me the dimensions of the sump it's self? Calc won't go lower than 25 gal sump with your exact specs because it adds up more than 20 gal volume with the sump dimensions that are preprogramed into the calc for a 20 gal sump which are, 24x12x16. I think what I should do for major saftey is instead of the calc finding out if the siphon volume,pipe volume and sump volume is greater than the "rounded off tank volume number" given by the manufacture of the tanks, I should have the calc figure out the volume by calculating the dimensions of the sump. Because some tanks sy "50 gallons" when the dimensions equal to 46 or 47 gallons. This could really spill disaster. Another example, the dimension I gave for a 20 gallon sump equals 19.81 gallons. I do believe thats the outside dimensions too, so that make it even worse.
You have the dimensions for a standard 20gallon high tank. Yes, it is 24 long, 16 tall, and 12 inches front to back.
My main issue is trying to use the most common "tank dimensions" for a sump. 24x12x16 may be an "odd" size.
Those are standard dimensions for a 20H tank... I do not see why an oddly shaped tank would be an issue because math is math right?
I would like to see what the "average" level drop in the aquarium is for most sump guys. So if anyone could let me know this too, that would also be great.
Like I said, not very much at all in the main tank... I have my return above the water line and my overflow is large enough to handle the flow from the pump without having the water level really high above the overflow.
I was looking at commerical sumps last night and it just confirms my suspision about the 1/3 rule. There are 35 gallon commerical sumps for a 300 gallon aquarium. The 1/3 rule would give you a 100 gallon sump.
I do not think that a 35 gallon tank would be enough for an average stocked tank. A lot of times commercial filters are rated for WAY more than they can handle... Like the emperor 400. Rated for 80 gallons, but I would never trust it with more than 30 by itself.
Now obveously, the sumps the calculator produces, you can make hold more or less bio media depending on your design, but I plan on, after the calc is finished, to have rough designs/dimensions available. I do, however, have the suggested bio volume in liters and I will try to get the calc to give suggested dimensions for the bio compartment depending on the dimensions of the sump size. Allow for room for mechanical, pump, heaters etc. If you wan't a large sump, you can easily set the "error margin" higher, say an extra 10-15 gallons or more.
Bigger can be better but there comes a time when bigger is over doing it and will not gain you anything except for less of a nitrate spike. Ammonia and Nitrite levels are reduced to a safe level by the BB. Your fish can't produce enough wast (once the filter is cycled) to produce a spike in ammonia that would ever reach the unsafe zone. Unless there is an underlying problem with the entire system ofcourse. Thats my take on it.
Also with a bigger sump you gain more water to dilute the wastes of the fish. With more biomedia you have a higher POTENTIAL (just emphasizing that because someone missed that word on another forum and I ended up getting into a little situation that got me banned!) of bacteria so you can keep more fish/feed more in the same tank without having water quality issues, presuming you keep your nitrates in check.
Aquarium Sump Calculator
- Thread starter Jgray152
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Right, mainly its the tank size/dimension availability for the calc user.
Well the canister filters are a bit different. Those are rated much higher but the commerial w/d filters have a good amount of bio media in them. Much more than the canister filters an they are rated lower than the canisters as well. If you look at some of their specs, you can see they are much closer to what they say than canister filters which are out of this world.
Well first a 30 gallon tank will hold 113 liters of media
Not much room for anything else. 100liters is a lot of media, I think about 700 gallons will use that much. So there is no point first of all to have that much media.The new version is almost finished enough for some beta testers to basically just punch in some different specs to see if any errors pop up and also to let me know if its calculations are off or questionable.
Would anyone like to beta test?
Would anyone like to beta test?
Updated the look again. You can see it at the end of page 4.
There are many designs that people use when designing a wet/dry filter, due to this, the actual calculated volume will be different. So I supplied two different designs and the ASC will be able to distinguish between the two and let you know how much media each can hold. Also, the "standard" design will hold more water while the sump is running compaired to the "high volume sump" so the tanks you can use it on must have a smaller foot print than the tanks that the H.V.S. can handle.
I have yet to complete the equations for the "standard sump" but that is coming.
There are many designs that people use when designing a wet/dry filter, due to this, the actual calculated volume will be different. So I supplied two different designs and the ASC will be able to distinguish between the two and let you know how much media each can hold. Also, the "standard" design will hold more water while the sump is running compaired to the "high volume sump" so the tanks you can use it on must have a smaller foot print than the tanks that the H.V.S. can handle.
I have yet to complete the equations for the "standard sump" but that is coming.
I added to smaller sump sizes to the ASC. 10 Gallon and 15 Gallon.
I am also no working on the equations for sump area dimensions vs. sump dimensions. This will also allow the calculator to determin a sump based on physical dimensions as long as the user inputs the "area dimensions" that sump will be in. If the user does not include the sump area dimensions, the calc will give you sump sizes not based at all on sump area dimensions vs sump dimensions and will still work just fine.
I am also no working on the equations for sump area dimensions vs. sump dimensions. This will also allow the calculator to determin a sump based on physical dimensions as long as the user inputs the "area dimensions" that sump will be in. If the user does not include the sump area dimensions, the calc will give you sump sizes not based at all on sump area dimensions vs sump dimensions and will still work just fine.
I am adding an area in the calculator for "Additional Volume".
If you would like to increase the capacity of your entire aquarium and filtration system for more stable water parameters, enter in the additional volume in this area.
Hint: Increasing the water level in the sump will increase the chances the ASC will be able to pick out a standard tank size for your sump out of the limited database of 31 standard sump sizes. Keeping the water level low will force the ASC to find a tank size with a very large foot print by looking at the Length and Width.
If you would like to increase the capacity of your entire aquarium and filtration system for more stable water parameters, enter in the additional volume in this area.
Hint: Increasing the water level in the sump will increase the chances the ASC will be able to pick out a standard tank size for your sump out of the limited database of 31 standard sump sizes. Keeping the water level low will force the ASC to find a tank size with a very large foot print by looking at the Length and Width.
Disclaimer:
The following is strictly my opinion. The OP asked for feedback on the tool and this is my personal opinion on the tool and it's merits. This is not a direct attack, it is feedback. I admire the OP for his efforts. I simply think them misguided. the following post is an edited copy and paste from anotehr forum he has posted the same topic on.
I'd like to first say that after reading this post I'm a bit flabberghasted. I can personally state that personal jibes being taken in this thread do nothing to convince me to buy or use a product. (this statement is in response to his replies when given criticism on the other thread but are valid here so I left it in this post) McDaphnia may have come acrossed as harsh in his opinion of the calculator but his opinion was quite valid, especially in this hobby. This thread is for DIY projects and ideas and as such we are normally pushing the limits of everything we have as the base of our hobby. Initially the tool IMHO was definitely a "minimum" tool rather than an optimal tool.
The definition of optimal in the case of aquaria follows along the lines of prevention. Basically overkill in most cases is a solid practice because we do not want to ever have the chance of being unprepared. In the instance of having "too much filtration" I can honestly say there is no such thing unless you cannot support the bactirial colony and have a devastating die off of the colony. Having extra canisters for example allows you to rotate your cleaning while not killing your entire colony since you still have canisters running with thriving colonies. A sump is also useful for a whole lot more than biological and to a lesser extent mechanical filtration. Being a place for pumps, heaters, plants, fry, injured fish, or whatever else you can think of, makes them highly useful.
Earlier an example was given earlier about overfilling the sump. (edit) Filling a sump in the most intelligent manner definitely involves physical checking and doing a power off run. If you simply trust mathmatics for this I can guarantee you will eventually get bit.
You have since modified your calculator to now add more volume with theh addition of a new field to enter the extra gallonage into. This pretty much (edit) directly conflicts with your original goal as well as contradicting your statement about oversized sumps. First, if you know how many gallons you want your sump to be you don't need the calculator. Second, if you build everything to the minimum you are bound to get hurt by it. Third, this calculator will be used by people who need more than the minimum and it will be called gospel and add yet another myth to the hooby which has WAY to many in it in the first place.
While I understand your desire to make a tool that in your mind is useful, your thought process goes against the practiced, tried and true methods developed over time with skilled aquariasts and proven research. Bio media and bio load can never be an exact science because it changes per hobbyist, to try to contain this in a nice little package is counter productive. There have been thousands of threads through the years on this forum discussing issues regarding fish and aquarium health directly related to bio load. Please do not be the cause of the next hundred. A sump is simply one tool we use to provide for our hobby, we do not need min/maxing adding to the myths we already have.
The following is strictly my opinion. The OP asked for feedback on the tool and this is my personal opinion on the tool and it's merits. This is not a direct attack, it is feedback. I admire the OP for his efforts. I simply think them misguided. the following post is an edited copy and paste from anotehr forum he has posted the same topic on.
I'd like to first say that after reading this post I'm a bit flabberghasted. I can personally state that personal jibes being taken in this thread do nothing to convince me to buy or use a product. (this statement is in response to his replies when given criticism on the other thread but are valid here so I left it in this post) McDaphnia may have come acrossed as harsh in his opinion of the calculator but his opinion was quite valid, especially in this hobby. This thread is for DIY projects and ideas and as such we are normally pushing the limits of everything we have as the base of our hobby. Initially the tool IMHO was definitely a "minimum" tool rather than an optimal tool.
The definition of optimal in the case of aquaria follows along the lines of prevention. Basically overkill in most cases is a solid practice because we do not want to ever have the chance of being unprepared. In the instance of having "too much filtration" I can honestly say there is no such thing unless you cannot support the bactirial colony and have a devastating die off of the colony. Having extra canisters for example allows you to rotate your cleaning while not killing your entire colony since you still have canisters running with thriving colonies. A sump is also useful for a whole lot more than biological and to a lesser extent mechanical filtration. Being a place for pumps, heaters, plants, fry, injured fish, or whatever else you can think of, makes them highly useful.
Earlier an example was given earlier about overfilling the sump. (edit) Filling a sump in the most intelligent manner definitely involves physical checking and doing a power off run. If you simply trust mathmatics for this I can guarantee you will eventually get bit.
You have since modified your calculator to now add more volume with theh addition of a new field to enter the extra gallonage into. This pretty much (edit) directly conflicts with your original goal as well as contradicting your statement about oversized sumps. First, if you know how many gallons you want your sump to be you don't need the calculator. Second, if you build everything to the minimum you are bound to get hurt by it. Third, this calculator will be used by people who need more than the minimum and it will be called gospel and add yet another myth to the hooby which has WAY to many in it in the first place.
While I understand your desire to make a tool that in your mind is useful, your thought process goes against the practiced, tried and true methods developed over time with skilled aquariasts and proven research. Bio media and bio load can never be an exact science because it changes per hobbyist, to try to contain this in a nice little package is counter productive. There have been thousands of threads through the years on this forum discussing issues regarding fish and aquarium health directly related to bio load. Please do not be the cause of the next hundred. A sump is simply one tool we use to provide for our hobby, we do not need min/maxing adding to the myths we already have.
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